You know, typical life in the early church.”

Okay, Now I’m really laughing! I’m just curious as to why Cerise thinks you are refering to Emergents?

[heads off to have another conversion experience]

This is something our pastor Doug has been teaching me - I’m a history buff, so I can sift through timelines and maps, cultural boundary lines and customs all day long, but most people in our congregation don’t come along on the ride if you present it in a lecture format. What they will remember, however, are all of those same things if they hear in a narrative - it becomes part of a story they remember. Doug does this very well, and I’m learning how to do it better. I notice fewer people nodding off, at least.

[quote]I like your conclusion, “There is a Kingdom of God here on earth, and Christ, rightly, belongs at the head of it. But it is not a political movement…” I look forward to the next installment where you can elaborate on the rest of this chapter. I’d like to see your take on v. 26, “Jesus answered them and said, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate of the loaves, and were filled.” [/quote]

Yeah, I wish I had a whole second week just to sort that part out. I think he’s referencing the response of Israel to the Mana - he makes this comparison explicit a few verses down. The Israelites didn’t trust God because of the pillar of fire, the parting of the sea, the miraculous deliverance, the plagues, they ultimately trusted him because their bellies were full.

Perhaps these people saw the miracle of the bread as a promise for economic blessing - they certainly understood that to be part of the role of the Prophet-Liberator who was to come. They thought he was making an implied promise about their own financial increase if they followed him. That seems to be what he chastises them for in the verse that follows (”do not work for bread that spoils, but for food that endures into eternal life”).

There’s a lot there, and the comparison to the followers of Moses in particular, I think, would yield a lot. I wish I had the time to do it!

[quote]I’m also curious to find out what happens to Joseph ber Shammai.[/quote]

He opened a fair-trade organic coffee house in Damascus, to protest the abuse of the Hittite wage-slaves on the Roman coffee plantations. He joined a local house church, where they smoke a lot of weed and talk about how Yahweh and the Emperor-God Caligula are really just different expressions of the same eternal divine idea.

You know, typical life in the early church.

When you speak of the way Joseph ber Shammai was interpreting Jesus’ words and actions in the context of the way he had been taught, it is understandable that he would think of earthly revolution. I think my favorite part is this quote, “He wasn’t willing to be seized by them, and made their king. Not in the way they intended. Because they didn’t want to follow him. Not really. . . . They wanted to swear allegiance to a cause, and they wanted to draft Jesus into being the mascot for that cause.” Wow! Isn’t that what we all want from Jesus, regardless of what we might claim? I struggle with trying to apply Jesus to my desires rather than me to His. Even Jesus said, “…nevertheless, not my will but Thine.”

I like your conclusion, “There is a Kingdom of God here on earth, and Christ, rightly, belongs at the head of it. But it is not a political movement…” I look forward to the next installment where you can elaborate on the rest of this chapter. I’d like to see your take on v. 26, “Jesus answered them and said, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate of the loaves, and were filled.” I’m also curious to find out what happens to Joseph ber Shammai.

Also, what do you mean - comparing the two what?