Or, if you’re Truly Reformed, died to proved a limited atonement of the elect.

Most of you who know me knows that there also beats a heart of tenderness and passion underneath, for the church, her people, the people who choose not to be a part of her, and the Savior who lived and died to save us all.

From about midway through the initial post…

“I cut him off again, and said something along the lines of, “Dude, I’m not saying I know you, or your brother. What I am saying is that I know the Scriptures, we’ve read all the same books, and we most likely know some of the same people, as it’s a small world, after all. I know where you’ve been, what you’ve heard, and how you think. I know you’re a five point Calvinist, that you believe in the complete inerrancy of Scripture, that you believe we live in a corrupt and wicked generation that needs the gospel thrown at them so that the elect can be called out.”

The point I was trying to make was that I had identified a lot about the guy because we are Spiritual brothers or at least first cousins. I didn’t claim to know his hame, his birthday, or his favorite CCM band (but it was Casting Crowns and everyone knows it). My claim was, and still is, that I was able to figure out quickly that we had a lot in common, and I was trying to get his brother to talk to me like a peer, rather then an argument victim, or possible convert to Amway..I mean Christianity.

Chad, you might be missing a key component of the interaction here, something that the street preacher would never say, but something ingrained in his theology.

He’s not interested in being effective. His theology doesn’t allow for it.

If he’s a master’s guy, and a MacArthurite, and a 5-point Calvinist, then he has no stake in being effective at his preaching. The basis of salvation is God’s choice, at the beginning of time, to save some and to allow others to continue on into the lake of fire. There’s no reason for God’s choosing, it has no basis in human assent or predisposition. Those who will be saved are predestined to be saved, and that’s that.

So, follow this through to its logical conclusion. If human choice has no play in the move to salvation, then it doesn’t matter if your evangelism is winsome, or effective. Your sole task is to “proclaim the gospel” – and then God calls out whomever he has elected beforehand. The proclamation has a double effect. To the elect, it becomes the proclamation of grace (which they are incapable of resisting), and they are saved. To the unelect, it becomes a double heaping of ye olde damnation, because then they’ve heard the good news and still rejected it. In both cases, the effectiveness of the preacher has no bearing on the outcome.

In fact, the Truly Reformed street preacher might have a vested interest in being really bad at what he’s doing. If he’s persuasive, he might risk bringing into the fold some who are not elect, but who are persuaded by human preaching (or Satan!!) to act like the elect for a little while, which is of no eternal benefit to them.

If he’s patently ineffective, or even offensive, in his delivery, and some of those in the crowd are still called out into salvation, then he’s simply proved the case that they were predestined, and not saved by their own cognitive effort.

I have no special insight into this guy’s mind – I don’t know him (and, let’s be honest Chad, it’s a bit persnickety to claim that you do after 2 minutes of hearing a guy speak). But if his view on evangelism flows out of his view on salvation (how could it not?), and his doctrine of salvation is grounded in TULIP, then his methods are in line with his theology.

Really? I guess I just expected more presence, more depth from a 4×12. A Behringer 4×12. Made by Behringer.[/quote]

Well, it was definitely a 4×12. But I’ll bet you one of Chad’s buckets of $1 that it wasn’t made by Behringer. It was made by whatever third-world country was shipping half-stack cabs on sale that month. And, no. No more presence for you. Not from Behringer. Actually, the head was probably the culprit. It sells for $349 online and is a booger on the sleeve of Jim Marshall. Read this from the MF site…

Now featuring digital effects.

Big Marshall tone
Delivers a dynamic yet toneful punch
100W power
2 channels (footswitchable)
Digital effects including reverb, delay, chorus, and flange
FDD (Frequency Dependent Damping)
CD ins, plus emulated line out, and emulated headphone jacks
25″W x 14″H x 12″D
39 lbs.

A few phrases stick out as decidedly UN-cool:
1) Now featuring digital effects
2) suitable for… even live music work
3) CD ins
4) fully gig-capable amp

Why the push to sell the idea that one can actually use the amp in a real, live, human gigging situation… with real live crowds and everything. ?

It’s not your fault, Mike. Good player – bad reh. space. Cheap backline. It’s not your fault. Damn The man.

1. Thoughtless evangelism.
B. Behringer
4. SpiderMan 3

Really? I guess I just expected more presence, more depth from a 4×12. A Behringer 4×12. Made by Behringer.

Reply 1: Church sucks! Here’s how to fix it!
Reply 2: Yeah!
Reply 3: Alec Baldwin’s a prick!
Reply 4: Yeah!

Regarding the pre-theater discussion – It’s definitely about the tone. Here’s a discussion question, if anyone is still following this thread: what would be a viable way to initiate a fruitful conversation about Jesus with someone in a long line in front of the Village Theater on a Friday night in 2007?

I feel like that’s a metaphor that I can relate to. Like, directly relate to. Probably because I spent 4 hours last night playing a piano sample through a Marshall head and a Behringer 4×10 cabinet.

That’s eerie that you would pick exactly that example.[/quote]

I know, weird, huh?

We don’t convert anyone, God does. Jesus calls us to love others; family, friends, enemies and neighbors and he’ll take care of the rest. That love can take many forms but it rarely involves trying to convince someone of how wrong they are.

My son William saw Spidey3 opening night as well and had the same opinion as Chad, he didn’t expect a lot and wasn’t disappointed.

I feel like that’s a metaphor that I can relate to. Like, directly relate to. Probably because I spent 4 hours last night playing a piano sample through a Marshall head and a Behringer 4×10 cabinet.

That’s eerie that you would pick exactly that example.

Not good, is what I’m saying.

Chad, I enjoyed the story. I have wrestled with this same issue…and my opinion varies with every instance I guess. I was recently informed by my pastor that most of the time it’s a difference between introverted and extraverted personalities concerning their evangelism styles…Being an introvert, the thought of getting up and preaching to a group waiting for a movie scares me to death-maybe it’s just not my style.

I hated X-Men 3

I loved Superman Returns. LOVED it.
It’s totally underrated. Have you heard the soundtrack? John Ottman did a BRILLIANT job of weaving the old Superman/Lois theme into a track called “How Could You Leave Us”.

Crap. Now I have to listen to it again…

I thought the underrated Superman Returns from last summer had more insight and emotion in that little speech he have at the end to the sleeping boy (spoiler free for those who haven’t seen it) then the entirety of the Spiderman series. I just don’t care a whit about any of the characters.

Just me…