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	<title>Comments on: Black Monday</title>
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	<description>your source for illegal theology downloads</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:08:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Resigned to Our Fate at Addison Road</title>
		<link>http://addisonrd.com/WordPress/2006/11/black-monday/#comment-54522</link>
		<dc:creator>Resigned to Our Fate at Addison Road</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Feb 2007 20:54:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://addisonrd.com/WordPress/?p=1039#comment-54522</guid>
		<description>[...] sure, it&#8217;s easy to go one way if you want to quit in a hurry, but then there&#8217;s the whole spectacular personal implosion [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] sure, it&#8217;s easy to go one way if you want to quit in a hurry, but then there&#8217;s the whole spectacular personal implosion [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Morphea</title>
		<link>http://addisonrd.com/WordPress/2006/11/black-monday/#comment-29675</link>
		<dc:creator>Morphea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Dec 2006 18:17:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://addisonrd.com/WordPress/?p=1039#comment-29675</guid>
		<description>Chad, I'm only just now reading stuff I missed while I was busy getting ready for my new neffy's birth. I wish I had been here when you wrote this, but I guess it's never too late for support of the distant-friend-ish type.

I'm so sorry, all over again, that this was your birth-into-leadership experience. I'm sorry that most of the many ills of the church were made flesh for you in this way. Your heart was hurt, many times over and I'm guessing by many people, in the process of living through this experience. For that reason I hurt for you.

I wanted to specifically address your remark that it feels like, to you, that all that's come out of your mouth (or fingers) for the last year has been ugly, and as a reader of your words I have to tell you that I've observed the exact opposite. Please let go of the notion that Angry, Hurt Chad is Ugly Chad. I've found so much beauty, however sorrowful, in your expressions of frustration, betrayal, and anger. You've become such a real person that I admire tremendously because of what you've shared - and you think that you've shared so little, and that little has been so un-beautiful. In my opinion that's a million miles from the truth.

You are loved by this Seattle hippy.
Cerise</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chad, I&#8217;m only just now reading stuff I missed while I was busy getting ready for my new neffy&#8217;s birth. I wish I had been here when you wrote this, but I guess it&#8217;s never too late for support of the distant-friend-ish type.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m so sorry, all over again, that this was your birth-into-leadership experience. I&#8217;m sorry that most of the many ills of the church were made flesh for you in this way. Your heart was hurt, many times over and I&#8217;m guessing by many people, in the process of living through this experience. For that reason I hurt for you.</p>
<p>I wanted to specifically address your remark that it feels like, to you, that all that&#8217;s come out of your mouth (or fingers) for the last year has been ugly, and as a reader of your words I have to tell you that I&#8217;ve observed the exact opposite. Please let go of the notion that Angry, Hurt Chad is Ugly Chad. I&#8217;ve found so much beauty, however sorrowful, in your expressions of frustration, betrayal, and anger. You&#8217;ve become such a real person that I admire tremendously because of what you&#8217;ve shared - and you think that you&#8217;ve shared so little, and that little has been so un-beautiful. In my opinion that&#8217;s a million miles from the truth.</p>
<p>You are loved by this Seattle hippy.<br />
Cerise</p>
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		<title>By: Sharolyn</title>
		<link>http://addisonrd.com/WordPress/2006/11/black-monday/#comment-27931</link>
		<dc:creator>Sharolyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Nov 2006 02:48:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://addisonrd.com/WordPress/?p=1039#comment-27931</guid>
		<description>Chad, sometimes there is just nothing to say, so I didn't originally post.  We had infidelity in our family.  I, too, have experienced this pain.  It sucks.

Today a friend was telling me about Sandi Patty's autobiography, and relayed a story that gave me chills.  I am doing an intense study of John, so feeling particularly close to that gospel.  I found the passage from a book review online, and thought it might illustrate Aly's point.

http://joyinthemorning.clubmom.com/joy_in_the_morning/2006/06/book_review_san.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chad, sometimes there is just nothing to say, so I didn&#8217;t originally post.  We had infidelity in our family.  I, too, have experienced this pain.  It sucks.</p>
<p>Today a friend was telling me about Sandi Patty&#8217;s autobiography, and relayed a story that gave me chills.  I am doing an intense study of John, so feeling particularly close to that gospel.  I found the passage from a book review online, and thought it might illustrate Aly&#8217;s point.</p>
<p><a href="http://joyinthemorning.clubmom.com/joy_in_the_morning/2006/06/book_review_san.html" rel="nofollow">http://joyinthemorning.clubmom.com/joy_in_the_morning/2006/06/book_review_san.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Chad</title>
		<link>http://addisonrd.com/WordPress/2006/11/black-monday/#comment-27665</link>
		<dc:creator>Chad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Nov 2006 06:55:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://addisonrd.com/WordPress/?p=1039#comment-27665</guid>
		<description>Yup.  So, it turns out my friend still reads this blog.  Hello friend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yup.  So, it turns out my friend still reads this blog.  Hello friend.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Semsen</title>
		<link>http://addisonrd.com/WordPress/2006/11/black-monday/#comment-27658</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Semsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Nov 2006 05:44:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://addisonrd.com/WordPress/?p=1039#comment-27658</guid>
		<description>dude</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dude</p>
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		<title>By: Karen</title>
		<link>http://addisonrd.com/WordPress/2006/11/black-monday/#comment-27404</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Nov 2006 04:22:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://addisonrd.com/WordPress/?p=1039#comment-27404</guid>
		<description>Thanks for sharing all of this Chad. It is good for us who don't get to see you to know what is happening.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for sharing all of this Chad. It is good for us who don&#8217;t get to see you to know what is happening.</p>
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		<title>By: harmonicminer</title>
		<link>http://addisonrd.com/WordPress/2006/11/black-monday/#comment-27397</link>
		<dc:creator>harmonicminer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Nov 2006 02:29:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://addisonrd.com/WordPress/?p=1039#comment-27397</guid>
		<description>Dunno from 12 step plans.  Too many jokes there.

But....  AA is organized in such a way that it de-emphasizes leadership roles, has very little in the way of structure nationally/regionally, and would not survive a year if alcoholics stopped feeling served (an unfortunate choice of term).

It gets most of its money from the people it helps.  A certain anonymity of participation is part of the tradition, as opposed to a giant dose of SEE ALL THE PEOPLE WHO LIONIZE ME FOR BEING COOL AND SPIRITUAL.

THE WIKI on one of its founders, known for many years just as Bill W., actual name Bill Wilson:

"Wilson refused numerous honors during his life, including an honorary degree from Yale University, and refused to allow himself to be on the covers of magazines. Before the twelve traditions were in place, Wilson was not shy about personal publicity. He later became an anonymous member and would later state that the principle of "public anonymity" was the greatest "spiritual principle" advanced by A.A."

The "twelve traditions" came into place a bit after AA was founded, and were intended to keep the AA personal and not fundamentally institutional.

The refusal of notoriety and personal media exposure is so rare among leaders of churches and movements as to be laughable.  Sure, some give much of their royalties to charity...  but how do you give your fame away?

Maybe the "housechurch" people have it right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dunno from 12 step plans.  Too many jokes there.</p>
<p>But&#8230;.  AA is organized in such a way that it de-emphasizes leadership roles, has very little in the way of structure nationally/regionally, and would not survive a year if alcoholics stopped feeling served (an unfortunate choice of term).</p>
<p>It gets most of its money from the people it helps.  A certain anonymity of participation is part of the tradition, as opposed to a giant dose of SEE ALL THE PEOPLE WHO LIONIZE ME FOR BEING COOL AND SPIRITUAL.</p>
<p>THE WIKI on one of its founders, known for many years just as Bill W., actual name Bill Wilson:</p>
<p>&#8220;Wilson refused numerous honors during his life, including an honorary degree from Yale University, and refused to allow himself to be on the covers of magazines. Before the twelve traditions were in place, Wilson was not shy about personal publicity. He later became an anonymous member and would later state that the principle of &#8220;public anonymity&#8221; was the greatest &#8220;spiritual principle&#8221; advanced by A.A.&#8221;</p>
<p>The &#8220;twelve traditions&#8221; came into place a bit after AA was founded, and were intended to keep the AA personal and not fundamentally institutional.</p>
<p>The refusal of notoriety and personal media exposure is so rare among leaders of churches and movements as to be laughable.  Sure, some give much of their royalties to charity&#8230;  but how do you give your fame away?</p>
<p>Maybe the &#8220;housechurch&#8221; people have it right.</p>
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		<title>By: Chad</title>
		<link>http://addisonrd.com/WordPress/2006/11/black-monday/#comment-27379</link>
		<dc:creator>Chad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 20:14:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://addisonrd.com/WordPress/?p=1039#comment-27379</guid>
		<description>I should note... for the record... that the last phrase "Killing off my friendship with this man..." implies perhaps a mortal death knell for our friendship, which is not the case.  I think fondly and often of my friend, I just have not made the time or space to really be in fellowship, via email or telephone, save a few exceptions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should note&#8230; for the record&#8230; that the last phrase &#8220;Killing off my friendship with this man&#8230;&#8221; implies perhaps a mortal death knell for our friendship, which is not the case.  I think fondly and often of my friend, I just have not made the time or space to really be in fellowship, via email or telephone, save a few exceptions.</p>
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		<title>By: grammy</title>
		<link>http://addisonrd.com/WordPress/2006/11/black-monday/#comment-27367</link>
		<dc:creator>grammy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 16:49:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://addisonrd.com/WordPress/?p=1039#comment-27367</guid>
		<description>Whew.  Ouch.  Damn.  What he said...yeah.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whew.  Ouch.  Damn.  What he said&#8230;yeah.</p>
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		<title>By: corey</title>
		<link>http://addisonrd.com/WordPress/2006/11/black-monday/#comment-27349</link>
		<dc:creator>corey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 14:51:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://addisonrd.com/WordPress/?p=1039#comment-27349</guid>
		<description>Phil, you might be on to something with the 12-Steps church idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phil, you might be on to something with the 12-Steps church idea.</p>
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		<title>By: harmonicminer</title>
		<link>http://addisonrd.com/WordPress/2006/11/black-monday/#comment-27291</link>
		<dc:creator>harmonicminer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 04:54:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://addisonrd.com/WordPress/?p=1039#comment-27291</guid>
		<description>Chad,

I've been there.  Shoot...  I've probably been the cause of someone else being there.

There are days (more than not, really) when I think the entire notion of the professional clergy, dependent on their sustenance from the organized church, is a deeply flawed enterprise from scratch, not New Testament biblical, and bound to produce personal grief like this, precisely because professional ethics (you screw up, you're fired, you seek employment elsewhere) trump personal ones (you screw up, you confess, you let someone else take the lead, you stick around as part of the community that still loves you, you clean up your act, you try again, because you're a part of the body, not dependent on it for your livelihood).  

Obviously, better not to screw up...  and I wish we had some really specific personal examples in the N.T. of leaders who failed in some important way, but weren't PROFESSIONALS, just Christian leaders...  so that we had some better models for dealing with it...  not just sort of prescriptive advice from Paul, but actual narrative STORIES to help us understand the prescriptions a little better.  There's precious little on that front.  We do have OT stories of repentant leaders...

Are there any paid pros in the N.T.?  

Your earlier post on the "double life" problem, the screens and pretenses we all put up, was just dead on target....  for absolutely every human being on the planet.  I'm just clueless what to do about it.  As an individual in an organization, when you drop the screen and reveal your real struggles and humanity,  you're labeled, fast....   But humans make organizations and institutions...  it's what we DO, and we can't accomplish much (good or bad, really) without them.  How to get around that so we can be "real"?  I just have no idea at all.

This is where the emerging folks are really on to something...  but somehow it has to be done in a way that upholds standards, and still upholds redemption.  I wish, I truly wish, that I could believe it could be different if we just did things better some way....  but I'm afraid I'm not too hopeful that a bunch of people won't just organize into another hierarchy, and do it all again.

I think we'd be better off if the church was organized more like the A.A. than like Dupont or a small business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chad,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been there.  Shoot&#8230;  I&#8217;ve probably been the cause of someone else being there.</p>
<p>There are days (more than not, really) when I think the entire notion of the professional clergy, dependent on their sustenance from the organized church, is a deeply flawed enterprise from scratch, not New Testament biblical, and bound to produce personal grief like this, precisely because professional ethics (you screw up, you&#8217;re fired, you seek employment elsewhere) trump personal ones (you screw up, you confess, you let someone else take the lead, you stick around as part of the community that still loves you, you clean up your act, you try again, because you&#8217;re a part of the body, not dependent on it for your livelihood).  </p>
<p>Obviously, better not to screw up&#8230;  and I wish we had some really specific personal examples in the N.T. of leaders who failed in some important way, but weren&#8217;t PROFESSIONALS, just Christian leaders&#8230;  so that we had some better models for dealing with it&#8230;  not just sort of prescriptive advice from Paul, but actual narrative STORIES to help us understand the prescriptions a little better.  There&#8217;s precious little on that front.  We do have OT stories of repentant leaders&#8230;</p>
<p>Are there any paid pros in the N.T.?  </p>
<p>Your earlier post on the &#8220;double life&#8221; problem, the screens and pretenses we all put up, was just dead on target&#8230;.  for absolutely every human being on the planet.  I&#8217;m just clueless what to do about it.  As an individual in an organization, when you drop the screen and reveal your real struggles and humanity,  you&#8217;re labeled, fast&#8230;.   But humans make organizations and institutions&#8230;  it&#8217;s what we DO, and we can&#8217;t accomplish much (good or bad, really) without them.  How to get around that so we can be &#8220;real&#8221;?  I just have no idea at all.</p>
<p>This is where the emerging folks are really on to something&#8230;  but somehow it has to be done in a way that upholds standards, and still upholds redemption.  I wish, I truly wish, that I could believe it could be different if we just did things better some way&#8230;.  but I&#8217;m afraid I&#8217;m not too hopeful that a bunch of people won&#8217;t just organize into another hierarchy, and do it all again.</p>
<p>I think we&#8217;d be better off if the church was organized more like the A.A. than like Dupont or a small business.</p>
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		<title>By: Cliff</title>
		<link>http://addisonrd.com/WordPress/2006/11/black-monday/#comment-27288</link>
		<dc:creator>Cliff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 04:03:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://addisonrd.com/WordPress/?p=1039#comment-27288</guid>
		<description>Chad,

I am so sorry for your loss.  To the tiny extent that I can, I mourn with you.

Cliff</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chad,</p>
<p>I am so sorry for your loss.  To the tiny extent that I can, I mourn with you.</p>
<p>Cliff</p>
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		<title>By: Chad</title>
		<link>http://addisonrd.com/WordPress/2006/11/black-monday/#comment-27237</link>
		<dc:creator>Chad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Nov 2006 20:43:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://addisonrd.com/WordPress/?p=1039#comment-27237</guid>
		<description>Thanks guys. It's been a hard year, the kind of year that feels like only ugly things come out of my mouth... or off my fingers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks guys. It&#8217;s been a hard year, the kind of year that feels like only ugly things come out of my mouth&#8230; or off my fingers.</p>
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		<title>By: Terri</title>
		<link>http://addisonrd.com/WordPress/2006/11/black-monday/#comment-27236</link>
		<dc:creator>Terri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Nov 2006 20:42:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://addisonrd.com/WordPress/?p=1039#comment-27236</guid>
		<description>Chad, I'm pissed too. I think a lot of us are. We don't know how to get past it. We want to trust again, but are afraid. We want to extend love and forgiveness, but know that there are those who only want retribution. So we show up with smiles and small talk and busy-ness... and broken hearts. 

Don't get me wrong, I also have hope for our church and its future.
 Jeremiah 29:11 For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD,"plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. 

I also know that if I've learned anything in the last few years, it is that no matter the magnitude of the bad thing that happens, God will use it for his own good purpose. Romans 8:28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

Like you, I wish it hadn't happened. And like you and countless others in our small church family, we will come out changed, and God willing, better followers of Christ for the experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chad, I&#8217;m pissed too. I think a lot of us are. We don&#8217;t know how to get past it. We want to trust again, but are afraid. We want to extend love and forgiveness, but know that there are those who only want retribution. So we show up with smiles and small talk and busy-ness&#8230; and broken hearts. </p>
<p>Don&#8217;t get me wrong, I also have hope for our church and its future.<br />
 Jeremiah 29:11 For I know the plans I have for you,&#8221; declares the LORD,&#8221;plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. </p>
<p>I also know that if I&#8217;ve learned anything in the last few years, it is that no matter the magnitude of the bad thing that happens, God will use it for his own good purpose. Romans 8:28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.</p>
<p>Like you, I wish it hadn&#8217;t happened. And like you and countless others in our small church family, we will come out changed, and God willing, better followers of Christ for the experience.</p>
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		<title>By: Gretchen</title>
		<link>http://addisonrd.com/WordPress/2006/11/black-monday/#comment-27231</link>
		<dc:creator>Gretchen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Nov 2006 19:20:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://addisonrd.com/WordPress/?p=1039#comment-27231</guid>
		<description>Chad, I appreciate your honesty and soul baring.  I truly feel as though I learn from you each time you write, no matter what the topic.  

"Be Good" is a song that ministers to me and I know countless others, and with that song you have been able to continue your friend and mentor's ministry at least in part.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chad, I appreciate your honesty and soul baring.  I truly feel as though I learn from you each time you write, no matter what the topic.  </p>
<p>&#8220;Be Good&#8221; is a song that ministers to me and I know countless others, and with that song you have been able to continue your friend and mentor&#8217;s ministry at least in part.</p>
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		<title>By: corey</title>
		<link>http://addisonrd.com/WordPress/2006/11/black-monday/#comment-27220</link>
		<dc:creator>corey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Nov 2006 16:55:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://addisonrd.com/WordPress/?p=1039#comment-27220</guid>
		<description>I'm not sure if it's an appropriate response to rekindle the &lt;i&gt;Here's&lt;/i&gt;-How-We-Oughtta-Fix-This tirade (which is what I'd love to do, because I genuinely feel this struggle with you, as we've discussed in the past. Just know that 1) I love your writing and 2) I'm glad you're still around these parts 3) it's the &lt;i&gt;meal&lt;/i&gt; of grace that changes a man's faith, not the pictures in the menu that get shown on Sundays</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure if it&#8217;s an appropriate response to rekindle the <i>Here&#8217;s</i>-How-We-Oughtta-Fix-This tirade (which is what I&#8217;d love to do, because I genuinely feel this struggle with you, as we&#8217;ve discussed in the past. Just know that 1) I love your writing and 2) I&#8217;m glad you&#8217;re still around these parts 3) it&#8217;s the <i>meal</i> of grace that changes a man&#8217;s faith, not the pictures in the menu that get shown on Sundays</p>
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		<title>By: aly hawkins</title>
		<link>http://addisonrd.com/WordPress/2006/11/black-monday/#comment-27218</link>
		<dc:creator>aly hawkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Nov 2006 16:39:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://addisonrd.com/WordPress/?p=1039#comment-27218</guid>
		<description>What a year. And by that I mean "What an effed up year."

I still have a sliver of hope that someday the Church will get the sin thing right -- that we'll make it neither The Worst Thing Ever, For Which There Is No Remedy, nor make it Not A Big Deal, Go About Your Business. It'd be nice if we could be a little more Jesus-y on sin: grieved, but not particularly alarmed. If we could get there, I don't think communities and friendships would be allowed to end so easily.

Thanks for this window into your soul, Chad. I'm truly sorry for what you have lost, and thankful for what you've gained. Perhaps the scales will balance, perhaps they won't. But even if the good never outweighs the bad, it still counts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a year. And by that I mean &#8220;What an effed up year.&#8221;</p>
<p>I still have a sliver of hope that someday the Church will get the sin thing right &#8212; that we&#8217;ll make it neither The Worst Thing Ever, For Which There Is No Remedy, nor make it Not A Big Deal, Go About Your Business. It&#8217;d be nice if we could be a little more Jesus-y on sin: grieved, but not particularly alarmed. If we could get there, I don&#8217;t think communities and friendships would be allowed to end so easily.</p>
<p>Thanks for this window into your soul, Chad. I&#8217;m truly sorry for what you have lost, and thankful for what you&#8217;ve gained. Perhaps the scales will balance, perhaps they won&#8217;t. But even if the good never outweighs the bad, it still counts.</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle</title>
		<link>http://addisonrd.com/WordPress/2006/11/black-monday/#comment-27200</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Nov 2006 13:31:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://addisonrd.com/WordPress/?p=1039#comment-27200</guid>
		<description>I remember those posts. That sucks. I'm sorry. You don't know me and I don't know you, but I prayed for you this morning.

Peace be upon this house.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember those posts. That sucks. I&#8217;m sorry. You don&#8217;t know me and I don&#8217;t know you, but I prayed for you this morning.</p>
<p>Peace be upon this house.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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