Bosnia is still trying to get it together, after eleven years. There are obvious applications to the current situation in Iraq.
It’s going to be awhile. There is one guaranteed way for Iraq to become a far worse mess than it is, and that’s for the USA to give up and leave. The history lessons here: Korea, Vietnam, Somalia, etc.
The argument will go on for decades about whether the USA should have invaded Iraq, whether more troops should have been committed, whether the aftermath was handled correctly, etc. It’s also pretty much a waste of time, now, in determining the direction of future policy. We’re there. We can’t leave till the situation is stable.
It will take years.
I’m not happy about this… but I truly see no other option.
I hope the arguments DO continue to go on — for decades, if necessary. One of the things that bothers me about the Bush Administration’s policy is the “if-you’re-not-with-us-you’re-a-terrorist” approach to anyone who questions the motivations for the war. Questioning the shaky reasons behind a pre-emptive invasion doesn’t equal “cutting and running” and anyone who says that wartime is not the time to question whether or not we should be at war is an idiot. It’s ALWAYS the right time to question whether or not we should be at war, most especially when the reasons given are discovered to be spurious.
I actually agree that we have to see this effing Iraq thing through, but I think Bosnia-Herzegovina might be a good model for long-term success (a model we’re not following right now). Bos-Herz has had ongoing international support and mediation since the end of the war (leading up to their imminent elections). Whether or not the US should have invaded Iraq (not), the pressure to create an Iraqi government in our own image has only fanned the flames of instability. Sure, it’s taken B-H eleven years (and counting) to figure out a good way to govern itself, but well-oiled governments aren’t born overnight, not without serious birth defects.
Finally, a rather unrelated point: drawing parallels between Korea, Vietnam, Somalia, B-H, and Iraq is tricky: there are some similarities in these conflicts, but also some big differences. (One of the obvious being that the US did not invade Iraq to break up a civil war.)
The US invaded Iraq to gain a desperately needed military foothold in the middle east for the sake of protecting the free world before another 911 attack could take place. Whether the blame for not having done this earlier lies with Bush 41 or Clinton (there is ample blame to go around; or our impotent congress (both parties) is immaterial. We got 911 because we stuck our heads in the sand from the Vietnam era on. The only thing we ever learn from history is that we never learn anything from history. And yes, we must see it through. We bombed the living daylights out of Japan in WWII and they ultimately became our allies. It just didn’t happen in the time-frame of a TV show. We have become a people who want immediate results and our credit card is overdrawn.
Simple observation: anyone who agrees that we need to “see this effing Iraq thing through” should probably refrain from commentary and policy positions that prevent that, or weaken our resolve to do it. Not to mention news reporting of national security secrets. Not talking about you so much here, Aly, as all those “moderates” who say they think we should “see it through”, but spend most of their time Bush-bashing.
Simple observation two: we didn’t get, and won’t get, “international support and mediation” if you define that as UN support. Not possible as it was (only “sort of”) in B-H, because the major players in the UN Security council (besides the USA and Britain) all had significant economic interests in keeping Saddam in power. Oil for Food… still laughing at that one. France, Russia, China, all were involved with Iraq, and with no possible chance of even-handed decision making, despite UN posturing.
The job still has to be done, and we have to do it. There is, simply, no other way.
The UN players had little economic interest in B-H…. being all Olympian and everything cost them nothing.
As far as the USA pundits goes, the mainstream media seems to think we should use our military only when there is no real national interest for us.
When you get to feeling too badly about it all, go here:
http://www.theotheriraq.com/
Sound too good to be true? Cheer up… Bill Clinton helped bring it about, by supporting the “no fly zones” that kept Saddam from bombing the Kurds. See, now it’s not so bad, is it?
George W. Bush got my vote in 2004 for one simple reason, and one complicated one.
The easy one first: I felt like a change in commander in chief in the middle of a war sent a message to the armed forces, the men and women of which I believe deserve support, that we didn’t value their sacrifice.
The hard one second: I didn’t feel like there was another candidate who warranted my vote. It was the lesser of two (three? more?) evils.
Since the election, Bush seems committed to making people like me regret their decision. Not that my little California vote matters, but I have lost most of my faith in his leadership ability. I gave him six years of the benefit of the doubt. I defended him to people that I felt had made rushed judgements. I still believe that history will ultimately write the decision on the presidency of George W. Bush.
Since my cred as a Republican is intact (my grandmother practically ran the Goldwater campaign on the west coast… don’t mess with me), I will say this… I am increasingly aware of the fact that these guys may have been totally incompetent all along, and if they were, then how, exactly, is it prudent to allow them to keep the Titanic going at full throttle without sounding a loud, obnoxious alarm? Is there a hope that if the boat picks up a little more steam that it might be able to smash right though that iceberg?
Melody, let’s keep in mind that as soon as we were done with our utter dominance of Japan and Germany, we got hip to this little thing called The Marshall Plan, in which we basically rebuild the nations we had just finished destroying. They’re allies because we did business with them, business was good, and in the specific case of Germany, our cultures were fundamentally compatible. Perhaps a little more compatible then any of us would care to admit… but that’s another thread.
Islamists do not believe for a moment that we are interested in rebuilding their nations. Why would they? They know that we’re really there for oil. If the point was to prevent another 9/11, I think a trillion dollars invested in the FBI and border security would have been better spent.
Do not make the mistake of roping me in with “Cut and Run” folks, whatever the hell that means. I know our national history, and I bet I know it as well as anyone on this blog. I know that we have lost just under 1/8th of the men that were killed on Iwo Jima alone. I know that, as a culture, we have “Lost our nerve,” for war.
I guess what I am waiting for is a leader who has the guts to actually apply Scripture where it’s needed, and lead the charge towards beating our swords into plows, that a harvest of righteousness might begin. Any Christian who thinks that true peace is going to be achieved at the end of a rifle needs to check out a little ditty called “The Sermon on the Mount.” It’s a hard read, and apparantly not popular among those with worldly power to protect.
Chad, you are correct that we went in to rebuild Japan and Germany, et. al. What makes you think we are not doing that in Iraq and will not continue to do so? Also, do you think that the US is a free country and has had long periods of peace because we never engaged in war before? Revolutionary war, War of 1812, Civil War, Spanish American War, Battle of San Juan Hill, WWI, WWII, Korea, VietNam, etc. I agree that true peace will only come to this earth upon the return of Jesus and if I read my Bible correctly the ’swords to plowshares’ verses found in Isiah and Micah both refer to the second coming and not before. Unfortunately, many like the communists misuse scripture for their own ends, which is pretty amazing considering they wouldn’t let anybody read the book.
One last thought. If we had a national leader who truly sought the Lord’s will in every decision they made, would all Christians unite behind him? I doubt it. We can’t seem to agree with each other on what the Bible actually says.
Melody,
You’re right. We are building in Iraq, and that doesn’t get covered by the media. It’s just not sexy enough. The Marshall Plan worked because (and I don’t claim to know how) we as a nation managed to convinced countries whom collective asses we had just kicked that we were, indeed, on their side after all. As long as we are strategically attempting to get at oil, with truthfulness and integrity or duplicity and deception, the population of that part of the world is going to smell a rat, and we will be defeated. If you cannot see that our motivation for a presence in the middle east is at least in part to their possession of the largest natural resource on the planet, we cannot even begin to have a serious conversation. Oil is in the mix, and to deny that is absurd.
So… you made an interesting point. The USofA has indeed engaged in it’s fair share of military conflict, and done pretty well. That leads me to one of my recurring points of confusion with the Christian community in that it seems the the most zealous Bible thumpers are also often the ones who zealously defend their nation’s right to solve problems militarily.
I can’t reconsile it, I really can’t. It’s the letter of the law when it comes to gays, democrats, and fans of questionable music, but not so when it comes to our armed forces. We’re still cool with Knights getting baptized with their swords drawn and out of the water, it seems.
Before you accuse me of being a pacifist weenie, please refer to my reasons for voting for President Bush in the last election. I understand that we make compromises in living in a fallen world, and I also understand that when forced to choose between the life of an intruder in my home and the life of one of my children, the intruder gets one between the eyes faster then you can say “Involuntary Manslaughter.” If evil is staring you in the face, and evil has a sword, evil gets his ass handed to him and that’s all there is to it.
So, why are we so hip to the idea that we’re the good guys in these situations? I bet the folks in Haditha weren’t feeling warm fuzzies towards the Marines who were raping and killing their daughters. Had I been there, I would have been tempted to raise a firearm at men wearing United States patches on their arms, funded by my tax dollars.
When do we cross a line between righteous defender and perverse offender? Since when does Jesus start making exceptions in Matthew chapter five? Where are the provisions for international acts of terrorism?
I haven’t even begun to deal with the FACT that Bush’s policies have multiplied anti-US sentiment all across the world and will most likely directly negatively impact the number and brutal nature of terrorist attacks in the future.
Chad, starting with your last paragraph and going in reverse; just because our major media tell us that there is anti-US sentiment all across the world doesn’t necessarily make it so. Other world leaders have their own agendas and power trips that cause them to hate the US, but having just spent time in Europe this past summer, I was quite surprised at the continued affection most Europeans have for America, especially in small towns. I would like to point out that since 911 there have been no terrorist attacks in the US or even on this continent. Over a 5 year period, I find that somewhat comforting. All the shrill words that have been said by liberals both at home and abroad would lead one to expect it to be otherwise, but it’s not.
Regarding the Sermon On The Mount in Matthew chapter 5: Which verses specifically refer to a national military? Was Jesus trying to set up a new form of government with his words? If so, who is wise enough to run it? You ask where we ‘draw the line between righteous defender and perverse offender’? That is a very complex question but I think you answered it yourself with your statement about the intruder and your children. Would your sentiment be different if the intruder was only after your neighbor’s children? What about the intruder in the next town and that guy’s children? Where DO you draw the line?
On to Haditha. Assuming the information about that rape and murder are correct, the only way we even know about it is that other American soldiers saw and reported this atrocity. There are still some good guys out there.
With regard to the comments about gays, democrats and fans of questionable music, what on earth does that have to do with anything? Also, please name those Bible thumpers so I can have some idea of who you are talking about. I’m not a good guesser.
As to the oil question, yes we have a strategic interest there, but there is so much oil worldwide, that to my understanding, only a small portion of what the US uses comes from there. Our Bush-bashing friend from Venezuela seems to have plenty of oil he’d like to get rid of anyway.
Finally, I never intended to call you a ‘pacifist-weenie’ and I hope you don’t think of yourself that way. There are unfortunately, for those of us who love the Lord and seek to do his will, some very tough issues in this life that we must grapple with. Some of us grapple (where did that word come from anyway?) better than others. I do think we need to be careful how we use scripture to further our own agendas.
P.S. Was your grandmother’s name Alibeth?
Working in reverse :)
No, her name was Harriet… and I don’t know that she actually ran the campaign. I’m prone to hyperbole. They were very active in it, that’s all I know, and I was attempting to humorously present my conservative credentials.
Oil: Well… I guess we’re gonna have to agree to disagree. There’s a lot of nasty stuff happening in the world and yet we seem to be focused on the one region where that black gold lies. I don’t think it’s an accident. I like to drive, and we need oil, but we need to make sure we have our eyes open to what’s happening and why.
Gays, Democrats, etc: I was trying to make a point that people who are quick to apply Scripture in sharp cultural attacks have a tendency to play hardball with the folks they don’t agree with and soft pedal when it comes to Jesus’ difficult teachings regarding peace and war.
Haditha: I know there are good guys (and girls) in the military. See original post for my feelings regarding military folk. War turns good people into bad people and “bad” people into victims. Haditha is not the only example of US armed forces becoming the oppressors and we need to be serious about that reality.
Matthew 5: Which verses DON’T apply? That’s my whole point! Folks like to get pretty serious and specific when applying any Pauline guidelines that suit their fancy, but like to ask slippery questions like, sorry to be offensive here, yours, when it comes to the teachings of Christ! ARGH! Sorry. Pet peeve.
No attacks since 9/11: I hope you’re right, Melody, I hope you’re right. I will point out that that fact is directly made possible by the men and women of domestic and international law enforcement. Last time I heard, that was not the military’s gig. In fact, I have it on good intel that military guys HATE feeling like cops.
Finally, I know that there is a lot of positive feelings towards the US and Americans left in the world. For how long, is my next question.
“Some of us grapple (where did that word come from anyway?) better than others. I do think we need to be careful how we use scripture to further our own agendas.”
Melody, this is an extremely provocative statement. Surely you do not think that people of a conservative mindset are not guilty of manipulating scripture to serve their own purposes, right? I mean… c’mon…
Chad, as to my provocative statement “I do think WE need to be careful how WE use scripture to further OUR OWN agendas.” I think I included myself and all conservatives in there didn’t I? I meant no offence.
As to gays, the Bible speaks to that issue quite specifically but I can’t recall ever seeing the word Democrat in there. Publicans yes but not Republicans. Although one might make the case that if publicans are bad, re-publicans are even worse! (A little self-deprecating houmor there to lighten things up a bit.)
I really didn’t mean for my question to appear slippery but if we are to have meaningful dialogue, we can’t just speak in sweeping generalities. The Sermon on the Mount contains a few verses that pertain to peace as in Blessed are the Peacemakers… v.9, loving our enemies v.44, “Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you…” and then he deals for the entirety of the rest of the sermon with things like lust, divorce, prayer, generosity, fasting, money, worry, criticizing others, the way to heaven and false prophets. The verse that quakes me the most is this one v.20 “For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.” (OUCH!) Thank God for his mercy and grace and sacrifice of his son or I would be out of luck. But I still don’t see an anti-war message neatly wrapped up in that sermon. I guess I’m just a little too thick.
Please understand that I am not a proponent of war and I hate it. Going to the funeral of a 25 yo boy I knew who was killed in Iraq was not a fun adventure. I still visit with his mother who grieves daily and his fiance who’s dreams will not be fulfilled. War is a terrible thing.
Well, unlike some of you, I just spent the day going to church, draining the “easy set pool” (still laughing… or crying) for the winter, and chasing my 8 yr old with a garden hose.
Where to start here?
Specifics matter in political decisions. They are of this world, not the next. We make them through the lens of our spiritual identity, but still have to make them.
Chad, what exactly would you like to change about current policy to “avoid the iceberg”? I read carefully… and saw no suggestion, just complaint about current policy. Like I said, there seem to be two options… stay there until Iraq is stable, or leave before that. I suspect you know which side in the debate is campaigning for which. Got a third suggestion?
Please read more about the Marshall plan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_plan
It worked because the people it saved had no other choice, not because they “trusted us”. Sort of like the Kurds now. (And the Sunnis have recently begun to show signs of understanding that if we leave, the Shiites will destroy them, with help from Iran.) We did the Marshall plan primarily to stave off the advance of communism… and we gave far more to our allies than to Germany and Italy.
Of COURSE we’re in the mid-east for the oil. What’s bad about that? We’re trying to accomplish several aims at once, like grown-up foreign policy should. Tell me when you stop driving your car. And I suspect you know what some of those other aims are without a list from me. Don’t conflate the aim of stabilizing the mid-east with a simple need for oil. The oil money is exactly what makes them dangerous to us in ways that go beyond our simple need for oil.
In the meantime, we are not stealing the oil, and we’re leaving the blood of our children to pay the bill for encouraging a gradual shift to rationality in mid-east governance. We will BUY the oil, when we can… and in the meantime, go ask the Kurds what they think about the situation.
http://links.streamingwizard.com/1stuk/theotheriraq/ustvspot1l.asx
Where do you get your information on how the Shiites and Sunnis as a whole feel about USA presence in Iraq? Just curious…. you seem so certain it can’t possibly work. But it is a tiny minority of people doing the murdering. There are communities in LA where the majority feel safer when the cops are around, but are afraid to call them or report crimes, due to behavior of a few. Should the cops leave?
Smarter people than us have tried to figure out what applying scripture to foreign policy would look like. I’ll be honest, and say I just don’t know. I doubt anyone else does, either. We do know some things it doesn’t look like, for sure… but I think it’s going to be hard to pin those things on the USA. If you think otherwise, give specifics, and then report what other nation you think is or was doing it better… not to be too tough here, but I think you need to show that what you want is possible, and has been done by some nation sometime in the last 1000 years or so, before holding the USA to the standard you want. Unless you do believe in the exceptionalism (historically speaking) of the USA? Actually so do I. If you do too, we can have some interesting conversations… and if you don’t, then quit complaining that the USA isn’t exceptional, if that’s your opinion.
Chad, referring to bad actors in the US military is pretty cheap, rhetorically speaking. (I still love ya, man.) There are people who do bad things, in every walk of life. Some get in the military. Some get in the ministry. Shall I begin counting the abuses of power by ministers I know, personally? Some really ugly stuff there… you get the point, I think. In fact, you’ve reported some of it.
Consider: you are an innocent peasant in some third world country. Bad stuff has being happening in your part of the world. A military convoy is approaching your village or farm. Which country do YOU want it to be from? I think you know. And even if you (the peasant) have been so brainwashed that you’re in fear for your life from US soldiers, do you (the reader) think that fear is justified? Gimme a break.
Re: the reason there have been no attacks on North America (from off shore actors) since 9-11, of course it’s domestic law enforcement… not sure what you define as “international law enforcement”… you mean counter-terrorist agencies of other governments?
Anyway, where do you think domestic law enforcement has been getting its info? Even they will say it’s mostly from off-shore sources, many of which were militarily gained. They got a LOT of info from the Guantanamo prisoners, nearly all of whom were militarily “detained”…. and many of whom would still be active terrorists if not detained… Besides: you don’t really think the New York Times has succeeded in publish ALL of our secret operations and intelligence gathering successes, do you? Just how sure are you that military action hasn’t turned up some of that?
And finally… if you’re an international terrorist who has long term plans, you may be willing to just cool it for awhile, having learned the hard way that the tiger does have teeth and claws, and is willing to use them.
We can all hope it’s a point that won’t have to made again, if/when we finish our current endeavors… but history doesn’t suggest it.
Guys,
Your arguments are surely stated, and most likely correct. After the day I have had, I cannot imagine diving into the information that’s presented above. A good night’s sleep will surely give me the strength to start some furious hot-linking. I will also be preparing an essay entitled, “How to Radically Change the Tone of a Blog in Six Easy Steps.”
I don’t even know how to express this to you, but here goes. Where the hell is Jesus in the arguement? I’m a practical guy, and I have a cognative understanding of all the things you have discueed above. I know we’re good guys (I’d bet on the convoy of the Americans, 99 times out fo 100… It’s just that hundredth one that still gives me pause). I know there are bad guys.
All of this is presented with such a blunt force that it just forces me to ask again… where the hell is Jesus in this grand FUBAR that you so vividly describe?
I just thought I’d jump in here and remind everyone that this is neither The Drudge Report nor The Huffington Post. I think it’s great that we can discuss current events and politics on the good ol’ Road, but I think we should bear in mind that this is The Road House, not The O’Reilly Factor or The Daily Show. To quote Michael, “…this place is all about: Nothing.” That is (my interpretation), the subject of each post is, at the end of the day, the least important thing on the menu. When you host a backyard bbq, the fact that you’re grilling up slaughtered bits of livestock and serving fermented beverages is not the point. The point is everyone getting together to eat said livestock and drink said beverages.
I’m not trying to poop on the politics parade here. (That would be absurdly hypocritical…which, given my present mental state, wouldn’t be that out of line. But whatever.) I just think we might benefit from a gentle nudge to remind us what we’re about: feasting together.
Okay, lecture concluded…and to be honest, I’m not even sure what I mean by all of this crap. I just feel like the spirit of this discussion is a big fat bupkis when it comes to fostering community, which is what I thought we were here to do. Instead, we’re turning into some kind of stump for party platforms. It’s weird. I don’t like it. But maybe it’s just me, and I’ll sorely regret this blathering the next time I want to post about politics. Or Phil will take this rant as some kind of proof that liberals always resort to whining about community and tolerance when they’re out-thought and out-maneuvered.
But whatever. Peace out.
Oops. Guess we were commenting at the same time, Chad. Maybe “Where the hell is Jesus in all of this” is the funk I’m feeling. I don’t know.
THE ROAD HOUSE!!!!!! You are a hot-linking priestess.
Good discussion! Not quite sure where to begin so will limit myself to three points:
1. If, after 9/11, the US had responded by spending all the money they’ve used thus far on war, on the best kind of development in the Muslim world, we’d be in a very different place. Imagine hospitals, roads, schools, electricity, small loans for business, human rights, clean water - all done in a way contextualized to the culture. A response of love and generosity in the face of evil is hard to imagine (think Jesus!) but I suspect such a response would have taken all the steam out of the terrorist movement. Yes, it’s very hard to contemplate such a scenario - but how many lives would have been saved? How many disenfranchised, angry, young Muslim men would be in schools and jobs rather than signing up to join radical Islamist cells? I guess it is too late to think about such a utopia for the current situation, but we could at least ponder how we, individually, can respond to wrong with love and forgiveness. Maybe the US will handle things differently the next time a 9/11 happens. Dubious. I like to be an optimist but I’m not sure I have enough faith to hope for that.
2. Unfortuantley, Anti-american sentiment IS on the rise all around the world. Don’t America’s own reports show this? It is wonderful that Melody met such friendly small town Europeans this summer but I don’t think that experience is representive of how the rest of the world feels toward the US. Not that my personal experience counts for anything statistically, but I have lived and travelled in east Africa, the middle East and the UK almost continuously since 9/11. People usually assume I’m American (and are polite about it) - when they find out I’m Canadian they often laugh, relax, are instantly warm, and make a joke about Bush.
3. I’m pleasantly surprised that there is such diversity of opinion on here. I kind of thought all Addison Roaders would think Bush was a brash, ignorant, greedy, war-mongerer.
RE: Aly
Hear, hear.
I really don’t want to see this become a political blog. If that’s your thing, there are plenty of places on the intra-web to go get it, in all flavors, and with all levels of discourse.
Sorry, Mike.
I’m afraid I misunderstood the situation. I was originally attracted to the blog precisely because of so many interesting posts that impinged on values, including political perspectives. Some of the discussion is just funny, but some was very serious, and it wasn’t all just straight theology….. the politics was sticking out in bumps.
Having been elected troll of the month (again), I will voluntarily call a moratorium by me on political posts for a month. Let somebody else do it…. if anybody wants to. Besides, I’m going to be an arranging fool for a month or two.
I do apologize if I’ve hurt feelings. i tend to play rhetorical hardball when ideas and reality are at stake. That’s why I’m so popular at parties.
Phil, you’re not a troll! And you might find your popularity at parties skyrocketing if you bring a beer bong to go with your rhetorical hardball. I think that would even it out.
I’m so down wit ya all on the hopes that this blog doesnt devolve into a wannabe political blog. When I want that I go to drudge and the AP wire and the list goes on an on. What I’ve alway liked about this site was it contained things and ideas that werent presented on other sites that I go to.
I like good deals on cool gadgets as much as the next guy but I have gizmodo and endgadget and crate and gotapex and woot and about a dozen other sites that i check out everyday. A big fat DITTO when it comes to politics. I’m sorry but just posting “IRAQ blah blah blah” here makes me skip the post. The only reason I checked this one out was because it had 18 comments.
Here’s what I like…I like posts by you guys that are real. That are about your life or observations that pertain to you…that drives conversation and actually makes me think about things on a more personal level. Not that discussing Iraq can’t, I recall a nice discussion on whether nations can be Christ like. That was very interesting and fun to think about…hopefully you get what I mean.
And just to see if I can get this to 50 posts…I offer this cheap and easy flame starting comment:
Steve Jobs is a false prophet and you are all his sheep. You will all look back on your cool apple designed appliances with the same shame that you do when you see your mullet in your highschool year books! (I offer the purple original iMac as exhibit A)
HERESY!
Is the BBQ still lit?
Can we burn him?
mmmmm, I smell an IP ban.
Phil’s off the hook. Get a wooden stake, and some of those duraflames. And then someone’s gonna have to finish the CGI for 300.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0416449/
Watch your back, Hunt. I have iMovie and i’m comng for ya. :)
I was actually going to ask you guys at some point or another what the Emergent ‘conversation’ was up to, since this is my one and only source for hot hot news pertaining to…that.
I vote for less political, more personal. Unless the political gets personal for you. “John McCain ate my guinea pig!”
Cerise
Morphea,
(Like most seasons of catastrophe) I’m not sure how I got through life while you were on sabbatical from Addison Rd. I get sucked into theological debates and self-deprecating crybaby rants as much or more than the next guy/gal around here. But before too long, I’m anxious to get on with the dick and fart jokes.
[meanwhile, back at the ranch]
Now, back to business. Weren’t we in the process of tarring and feathering someone?
OMG…”John McCain ate my guinea pig” has never been said before in the history of the world. And we are poorer for it.
Corey, I’m going to take the compliment and not think about the fact that I have officially supplanted The Chad as the resident goofball. Unbelievable. Actually, I’m both a teensy bit pleased (who out-goofs Chad? Who?) and also determined anew to try to take part in the smart, deep stuff now and then.
Aly, I wish I were really that random. I thought of guinea pigs because I’m reading “Bel Canto” right now and the subject of guinea pig cuisine came and went, quickly, thank god, and John McCain because I was trying to think of a relatively relaxed (with regard to partisanship, at least) polititian so as not to appear biased.
I wish to further the mystery surrounding my spectral (that’s not right - relating to the spectrum) leanings.
Cerise
I’m just wondering how the concert went.
(I’m the really dumb girl who, during a lull in the deep/informed/witty/smart conversation says “Have you all seen my new shoes?!”)
They’re faaaaaaaaabbbulous.
June,
If we’re talking about the same concert, it went really well. Apparently the guitar player is a real hit with the 41-and-older female crowd.
whereas the keyboarist was all the rage with 14-year-old high school girls, who go to the CD table afterward to talk to the merch girls about how awesome he is, then get really awkward when the merch girls says, “Thanks! I’m his wife!”.
It came about 15 years too late, but I’m finally popular in high school.
Cool. Had I been there, I too would’ve surely been waving my cell phone in the air and gushing about the players. Wish I could’ve been there. (Not that hearing each and every single part played over and over and over during the mixing process isn’t JUST the same as hearing a concert.)
I just went to the Women of Faith conference at Arco Arena in Sac and at one point in a song when, I guess they wanted to whip the middle-aged Christian women into a crazed concert frenzy, they asked us to turn our cell phones on and wave them around to the the rhythym of the music. I just couldn’t stop snickering and really wished I had an actual lighter on hand.
Chad, I’m quite willing to be yours and Erica’s shoe stylist for tours and photo shoots.
June, I swear, get your own blog. I will read it.
Michael, you must understand that keyboard players are hot, hot, hot - especially with that foot-kick thing you do. Also, the facial hair and sort of John-Cusack-like mouth pursing (there I go again, Corey) gives a menacing/vulnerable appeal that drives girls (and boys) wild. So I’ve heard.
I mean, right, Gretchen?
Note: keyboard players ARE hot, this fella notwithstanding.
Cerise
“OMG, I’m still shaking. Will you tell the keyboardist that he’s my idol?”. (direct 15 year old quote)
Yes, yes I will. Yeah, it was a fun moment.
“How does he even play like that?”
Well, it’s this little thing they call ADD….
The music rocked. The whole, pulling it all together and making it into a concert will come with repetition and practice. But, it was a lot of fun, and ABF is so supportive of Chad and Erica, it was really cool to watch the love and total support come pouring out of a couple hundred people.
The CD looks really cool too (way to go Corey) and Stick it sounds great. Beth (Corey’s wife) and I are continuing to memorize all the words so we can be “those fans” in the front row of the San Diego concert.
And by San Diego, we mean Orange County.
right.
Well, here comes MY unbiased (NOT) opinion: I thought Erica was sexy as hell. Did anyone else (but Chad) notice that little detail of the concert???
Okay, that was a little hastily posted, maybe…
I’m sure one of us would’ve said something, but there’s a pretty specific clause in our band contracts about not addressing or referring to “The Talent” in any way. The actual specifics are that we’re to “make no eye contact” and refer to the talent as Mr. President and Mr. Other President.
Or “associate producer” as Erica likes to be called
Why am I super sure that I’m not ever going to live that down? Co-Producer?
I ARRANGED ALL THE TRACKS!!!
You’re all bastards.
Yes chad. You are undoubtedly right.
What’s going on?
And Michael, on what planet does someone have the wherewithal to know WTH a “Pyrrhic Victory” is? You’re just…wow.
And why is no one slapping me around for saying that dark beer tastes like sh**? What’s happening here?
Cerise
I was paying her a compliment!!!!!
You’re still all bastards.
Not my wife!
She’s an associate bastard.
I had been avoiding this politically-charged topic and its resopnses. Then tonight I see that it has 49 responses, so I wonder, “What direction did that conversation take?” I scroll and the first thing I read is Grammy saying, “I think Erica was as sexy as hell.”
Apparantly I missed a few days! :)
Yeah. I feel sorta guilty… and yet it’s sorta oddly poetic.
Sharolyn, par for the course around here, don’t you think?
Actually, when Grammy said that I was furiously trying to remember whose mother she is - Chad’s or Erica’s. ‘Cause if MY mom said I was “sexy as hell” (well, she’d NEVER say hell - she’ll say bitch now, but only to be naughty) that would be…weird.
Cerise
Have you all seen my new shoes?!
June, post a picture or shaddap.
I love shoes. Please don’t tease me.
Cerise
P.S. Why isn’t anyone explaining what’s going on?
Morph,
I think it’s something in the water… er… in… 6 different… states across the nation.
…
I was feeing particularly vulnerable when I posted on the fear thread of Aly’s and I was met with nuthin but cricket farts. Something funky is going on around AR. Dogs and Cats, living together. Strokes and New Shoes and Associate Sexy as Hellers and Dark Beer Bashers…
Grammy is Chad’s mom, and apparantly a thinner one than I knew ten years ago! (Maybe it was her myspace picture that I saw. ??) Is this something Grammy would care to blog about, or am I getting too personal? You are beautiful, Terri! You always have been.
I think we should have a “let’s talk and catch up” post so we don’t have to continue all this under the political topic.
Why?
Morphea- The Dailies concert was awesome. There was a brief period in the introduction of a song where Chad was talking about how great it was working with Mike, Corey and Rosy, how awesome Chris was at El Dorado and how everyone had so much give and take with the project. He mentioned how Erica may not have played an instrument on the songs, but how she was in the control room the whole time acting as an “associate producer” and Erica interupted with “associate?” Chad fumbled a little, thought about putting his foot in his mouth…it was funny in the moment. I think it was really funny because in an intro to a different song Erica had started out…”Let me tell you something about working with my husband…” It was all lighthearted and fun, and made all feel right at home, watching a domestic squabble.
Thanks, G! :)
God bless you, G. I was on tenterhooks over here.
CHAD!!!
[kidding, Chad]
The funny thing is that I’ve been thinking long and hard about the original intent of this thread and was going to steer back that direction a little later today when I had some time.
But now at least it feels like The Roadhouse again.
Phil, if you’re still reading this… Politics are not out of bounds at an End of Summer BBQ, but they’re just discussed… differently. I am still thinking about the point of view that you presented… like… 6,534 comments ago.
The shoes are brown and yes, they are fabulous.
I feel so left out. No concert. No End of Summer BBQ. No beer. What am I doing with my life?
Corey, take cricket farts as a compliment. I’m going to add “WGS” (What Gretchen said) to my Roadie acronym list. Some of us just don’t have large brains and it’s jus too hartd too thinking and tawkeen uhbowt bigst ideers…uhspeshully wen yous haf noo shoos.
I don’t have large brains, either. But I want to talk anyway. (I try to be funny to put the thinky thinkers off.)
TRUST. ME. Most of the people who know me think I’m a total dumbass. Trust me on that one. If you won’t trust me, ask Mike and Gretchen.
Beth happens to love me in spite of the fact that I’m no intellectual ninja.
Can you believe Bosnia is still trying to get it together, after eleven years?
I hear Ollie North lives in Bosnia now and has really nice shoes…
BTW, Sharolyn, I had gastric by-pass surgery almost three years ago and am now an official goddess (well…as “goddess” as you can be at 55, I guess…are goddesses allowed to have saggy boobage?)
She looks like a smarter Michelle Pfeiffer. No joke. Hawt!
Wow, Terri, that takes an admirable amount of courage, self-dicipline, etc. etc. I am proud of you!
Since we’re completely not talking about Bosnia anyway… I thought of you all during Katrina, since the only time I’ve been to New Orleans was Summer 96 with Chad, Mike, Aly, and others. Terri surprised us there. I feel privileged to have visited before the catastrophe.
No, Chad, I am NOT still reading this thread.
so there
This young man was killed in action on Monday, Jan 15. He was 23 years old. He was smart, educated, and subtle.
Here is his story, about himself, and why he was there.
Wow - what a guy. He certainly did his brain work about What Is Wrong and What To Do. I applaud his decision, simply because of the enormous body of mind work behind it and because of the moral weight he felt on his own young shoulders. I’m curious about the many influences that made him who he is. Was.
Cerise
Fascinating read. I find it interesting that he listed “The Daily Show” as his favorite TV program.