I don’t do that a whole lot, myself. I’m too chicken to put something out there that I won’t be willing to defend in detail later. I’m too concerned with what people will think of me, and whether I’ll look or sound foolish. (As if that ever stopped anybody from forming the same impression anyway!)

I kinda think the ideal church size is somewhere between 6 and 1200. Assuming no organized persecution by government or something, if it isn’t big enough and known enough to be findable by the needy (physically or spiritually), and big enough to do something about it when the needs are identified (depends on the needs, yes?), then it’s too small to qualify as “church” in my world, though it may certainly be “part of the body”. It can get too big really quickly, though. Most really large churches would be better off splitting (maybe in more than two pieces) and doing it again. But that is distinctly not the norm, though there are pleasant exceptions here and there.

It’s too hard for lots of people (in and out of church leadership) to release the good feelings they have about how big their church is, and just let go of it.

This is a terribly provocative post, and I am glad you have brought it up. I think there is something at the core of this issue that no one else has gotten to, so I think that I am going to have to bring it up. I’m really sorry to be the one to say this, but I think it has fallen to me, and me alone.

You were going to cleanse your movie pallate with Posiedon? What the hell are you thinking? MI:3 is still the best ride in town. Sheesh. Get your stuff together, woman.

I’m a big fan of Christian community…BIG fan. We are part of a house church that’s been meeting together for almost a year, and it’s the greatest thing ever. We’re at different places in our faith journey (a couple people are in the same space I was in about 18 months ago: What if it’s all a lie??), but there is a real spirit of being co-journeyers, of seeking together after Truth and longing to live in It.

So I’m not anti-Church (people living life together for the sake of God’s kingdom). I think I’m just over the modern evangelical church iteration of Church, largely for the reason Phil mentioned (alienation from one’s neighbors and local community) and also because I see Jesus being horded in a way that (I believe) is antithetical to God’s kingdom.

This is old news — the emerging church was birthed out of this same disenchantment with/deconstruction of the modern EV church, and I’ve been processing thoughts like these for 10 years. But I think meeting our new friends on Saturday night brought it home in a fresh way, evoking a new grief that Ash & I were the “first Jesus” that Lorien and Gary had met, while 1200 people go to church across town.

However, I am also loving our small church community. I love how real the people are (sometimes, a little too blunt) and how the body of believers we are surrounded by genuinely care for Mike, Sophia and I. Especially Sophia. I want her to grow up around multiple generations, and not just her relatives. I love that 200 people care about her and want to support Mike and I in raising her to learn to love Jesus. This is something I can’t do by myself at home.

But: while institutions often do tremendous harm, it takes institutions to do tremendous good.

Consider: what if a hundred of us all pile in our cars and drive off to aid Katrina victims, working as individuals? Compare to the great effectiveness of the Salvation Army, using the same resources and personnel.

So, disappointed as I am in our institutions, including many churches and church-related institutions, I think they’re the only game in town.

Put it this way: if I’m ever down and out, I’ll call a church. If you aren’t part of one, how will anyone know to come to you?

Part of this problem is the alienation between people in modern urban culture, and the separation of church life from local community. If I drive 20 minutes to get to my church, and I don’t routinely see the same people as I live my life in other ways, what kind of community can I have? Compare to small town life… you get the idea.

It’s a lot tougher to keep up the “prepackaged religion” thing when you see the same people all week long… but that’s distinctly not the norm in modern life.

But don’t through out the institutions just yet… we desperately need them to do large bits of good in the world. We just can’t sell our souls to them.