The Official Emergent No / Slice of Laodicea protest site has been launched…
… but much like the mythical city of Brigadoon, it may soon vanish into the mist. Take a moment to stroll over to www.emergentno.com, and see what sysop Justin has done. He has aggregated both the Slice of Laodicea and Emergent No blogs and presented them for open, uncensored commentary.
This has not gone unnoticed. Just this evening, Ingrid posted this in response, with two followups here, and here.
Why yes, Ted, I do have a few opinions, don’t mind if I do:
1) Aside from any political interest I have in this, this is a small yet significant internet “moment” that shouldn’t be missed. I don’t know if something like this has happened before, but I bet you a nickel it won’t be the last.
B) Ingrid should absolutely let this site go on. It’ll be a great place for her to send her readers to see the true colors of all the ugly “Emergents” who so viciously attack her. If anything, this site will only increase her readership and interest in what she has to say. Anyone who is any student of history (or… you know… THE BIBLE) will tell you that attempting to squish someone who offends you will only result in more someones popping up faster then you have squishing fingers.
4) This may come as a shock to some of you, but I am not an expert on internet copyright law. If Ingrid is right, and the law is on her side, the site should be removed or heavily altered. RobbyMac makes some thoughtful suggestions about 2/3rds of the way down on the talkback of this thread. For this to work, there cannot be the slightest hint of inappropriateness or illegality.
Salty) Ok Ingrid and Slicers far and wide, here’s the deal. You may have the letter of the law on your side, but please, seriously, stop for a moment and consider dropping the whole moral outrage / wounded fawn routine you’ve got going on right now. Your true colors are being flown with pride. I particularly like Jim B. deciding that the most Christian way to deal with this problem would be to print the webmaster’s home address. Douglas states that most of the people within the emerging movement are demon posessed. Carol calls it a cult.
Jimbo, Douggie, and Caroline: lend me your ears, I’m ’bout to get up all in it.
Jim: Your action is completely irresponsible. Any further comments from you regarding legality will be met with snorts of disbelief, and, if I have been drinking Dr. Pepper, an audible, sustained fart.
Douglas: When I was in high school, we had a family friend who, after many years of marriage, decended into multiple personality disorder as a result of ritualistic abuse that she suffered as a child. We, as a family, engaged this other Christian family (there were young children in their household) and devoted a significant amount of time to attempting to save this woman’s life…literally…she tried to kill herself in my parent’s bathroom where my younger sister found her and called 911. By the grace of God she survived her OD and has since progressed back to mental and spiritual health. I saw things that were intensely frightening while we were on watch with her. She wore Coke bottle glasses and when her little “child” personality came out, she could identify the difference between a quarter and a nickel from across the room without wearing her glasses. What’s the point, Doug? Well, here it is: if you think most emergent folks are demon posessed, brother, you ain’t seen a thang. When a real demon hits the room, you know it, friend, and there’s no room for speculation. You’d better be damn sure of yourself before you start throwing statements like that out, and it’s clear that you lack the information to do so. What you’ve said cheapens the profound horror that our Enemy wishes to inflict on us.
Carol: Cults have a specific set of defining charactaristics that most Christians who study them agree upon. For example, actual cults attempt to isolate the victim from friends and family. Actual cults tell you that any deviation from their beliefs is heretical… uh oh. Actual cults encourage you to give the entirety of income and assets to the group. Physical and sexual abuse are present in real cults more often then not. Oh yeah, by the way, actual cult leaders are clinically incapable of humor, and last time I checked, we’re a pretty funny bunch. Carol, you may have doctrinal problems with the Emergent movement, but to label it a cult is simply bad intel. Care to comment? You should know that, unlike talkback on Slice, facts will be helpful.
Salty Conclusion) Okay… Ingrid, I believe that you’re frustrated and even hurt by this. I believe that you feel wounded, and that someone is stealing from you and trying to purposefully inflict pain on you. These “Emergents” must seem like the nastiest lot on God’s big beautiful earth. I sincerely hope that Justin will work it out in a way that you don’t feel is a slap in the face to you. Yeah, a lot of us have flown off the handle at you. Some of us have tried sneaky things like trying to post the craziest thing we can think of to see if it would get posted. Frank is sorry. I’m sorry, we’re all sorry. Well… Morphea’s not sorry. You seem to really piss her off. Everyone else is sorry.
You really need to take a moment to read and consider some of the things that your readers have to say. You provide a public display for half-truths, half-baked arguments, insults, condemnation, slander, and extremely questionable grammar, and that’s just from tonight. Paul Proctor’s article about Kyle Lake is one of the least Biblically sound essays I have ever had the misfortune to read, and you linked to it and gave it publicity. Jesus and Mr. Proctor are gonna have some words about that little article, and it’s not gonna be pretty.
I have now written and erased three closing paragraphs to this post. It’s just not happening. So I guess I’ll just say goodnight to all of my precious brothers and sisters in Christ; may your sleep be restful. Tomorrow will be a good day for us to try and be better to one another.
I’ve been really caught up in following the arguments between Ingrid and the Emergents (‘Ingrid and the Emergents’ sounds like the name of a bad punk-rock band). I’m so glad I decided to accept Christ as my Lord and Savior ‘before’ I started following this argument. If I had read all this stuff before hand, I might of made the wrong decision. I gotta be honest, I haven’t been terribly impressed by either side.
Clark
Anyone who is any student of history (or… you know… THE BIBLE) will tell you that attempting to squish someone who offends you will only result in more someones popping up faster then you have squishing fingers.
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I’ve been re-reading THE BATTLE FOR GOD by Karen Armstrong, and you’re both spot on. This is how different breeds of fundamentalisms get launched: Regular people try to explore truth and God and get persecuted and squished (or ignored, in the case of EmNo and Slice). They become more convinced by the persecution and squishing than they EVER would have on their own that they are absolutely, positively right. [Oven timer *ding.] Presto: brand, spanking-new fundamentalists.
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I’m of two minds about Justin’s bold move. On one hand, I think he’s a freakin’ star for giving all those shut out a chance to express what’s on their minds. On the other hand, people cannot be drawn into dialogue against their will…that’s called assault. If Ingrid, Carla, et al have made the decision to have no truck with emergents, they are in violation of scripture – but we’re probably not the ones to tell them, since they’ve chosen time and again to refrain from discourse. They don’t want to be engaged, they want to be propagandists. Let them do it. We’ve got things to do.
Hey Clark, glad to hear your opinion, and yes, also glad that you accepted Christ before you started reading what I have to say, that’s for the best. I read your post, and would like to offer one thought: I don’t hate Ingrid. I don’t hate her one bit. Believe it or not, I actually pray for her from time to time, and if she says something that resonates with me, I have tried to communicate that to her.
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The way she speaks her mind, and the real world fall out what happens when people who ARE undecided come into the orbit of someone who says such things, is why I am fired up about her and folks like her. I absolutely do not hate her. I consider her my sister in Christ.
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I can’t vouch for her feelings about me, so you’ll have to ask her about that.
Aly… I told you…
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I will not be able to sustain this level of frustration much longer, it’s just too tiresome. In fact, I had sworn off sharing Slice info on AddisonRD, but this was just too interesting to pass over.
Unrepentant Morphea checking in…
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You’re right, Chad [disclaimer: I have not yet clicked on any of your neato links, so I have no idea what's going on - yet]. Ingrid pisses me off, as does anyone who name-calls, judges, rebukes, proof-texts or slanders in the name of…anyone, really. Which means I piss myself off pretty danged frequently.
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I don’t hate her – I don’t really care about her one way or another. And since I’m no-one’s sister-in-christ I can’t really say she’s mine. But she’s my human sister and I don’t want her to feel hurt or afraid on the Internet. Even in the interest of fair play, full disclosure or whatever. Though I agree with Chad that she and those like her may indeed be pointing stray lambs in the wrong direction. What’s Addison Road getting itself into, my loves? If we’re fighting for the stray lambs, bravo. Please let’s make sure that that is the case every time we engage those we disagree with. I know, I’m the least of the kind-hearted, but…
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Morph
I agree, Chad, this will be very, very interesting. Justin seems like a nice enough guy, so I won’t worry.
Morphea,
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I think that one of the things about this kind of site, as well as others, is that there is not perfect agreement between THE WRITERS!!! It’s about the clash of ideas and the grace that binds us at the end of the day.
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And yes, I fight this kind of fundamentalism in the name of every person I have ever met who claims to reject Jesus because of encounters with these kinds of folks. There are just too many. However, I have no illusions about the idea that if we could only eradicate fundamentalism, all the wayward lambs would come together for a rousing chorus of There is A Redeemer. What I would like to be a part of is eradicating as much of the churchianity that soils and muddies the Gospel message of sin, repentance, grace, and forgiveness, so that those wayward lambs can clearly hear the voice of the Shepherd.
I’ve never heard the word “churchianity” before. It’s going on my list of “Top 5 Overused Words of 2006″.
This is getting kind of ugly, I suggest just ignoring them, and focussing your
efforts on what you believe you need to do.
Well said, Chad. I knew that you were going into this new arena with the most loving of intentions. Truly. And I think the term you used is very apt.
Larry, I think you’re right. While I cannot publically announce my Anti-Slice retirement just this moment, I can certainly see it on the horizon. I am curious as to what in my post, specifically, you find ugly, other then the fart threat directed towards Jim.
I’m going to say something nice, for a change. If you go to http://www.emergentno.blogspot.com (the real emergent-no) and look at the thread that was started last Thursday entitled, “Regarding Absolute Truth.”
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There is some very real, very interesting, VERY literate conversation going on there, and I applaud Carla for letting it happen.
My thinking is that the situation between this blog and those other
blogs is getting ugly, not any particular posting. It’s probably best just to
peacefully step out of the conflict.
Cool…
I know that I have taken a particularly strident tone with Slice… I’m kind of getting over it, but the crusader in me was deeply in need of some release.
Believe me, I’ve done the same, but I think as I’m getting older, I’m not so inclined
to go out and do battle, in what little crusading I did I just ended up making myself upset. And it seems even that I deliberately would go out and seek conflict, making
myself even more upset. I’m not necessarily saying one shouldn’t support a cause, but sometimes for the sake of one’s peace and stillness it’s best to step out of the fray.
I think you’re wise. I wish to be your Padawan Learner.
Good idea, youngling.
SILENCE, DARTH LIBERALUS!
I wasn’t really trying to make a point. I just wanted to type the word “youngling.”
And I think that tomorrow, you should only be able to make points on this blog using lines from Star Wars.
Then tomorrow be able to post will I.
Great danger I sense if this line of reasoning continues. Great danger…
Luke, I am your father.
*too much of a stretch?