Kyle Lake, and the Shame of Fundamentalism

Chad sent me a link to Ingrid’s post on the death of Kyle Lake, pastor of University Baptist Church. In it, she revels in the fact that he was an emergent pastor, preaching an “unclean” gospel in a new-agey style. She stops just short of calling it an act of God to cleanse his church.

In the proud tradition of fundamentalism, Ingrid has made it clear that Slice of Laodicea does not welcome dissenting opinions in the comments. Well, in the proud tradition of Addison Road, I’m going to leave my dissenting comment here. Feel free to comment below. Feel especially free if you disagree with us.


“So what are we saying here, Ingrid? That the Old Testament God finally showed up and began cleansing the church of her heretics? That a church built near a liberal university is in jeopardy, in constant danger of falling into perdition?

You think he was a heretic. Fine. You think he was a wolf among the sheep. Fine. You think his brand of new-agey preaching precludes him from the pantheon of bible-thumpers. Fine.

But to revel in the death of a young father, a husband, a friend to many, and a servant of all, this is just too much.

Grieve. Grieve as all God’s children should grieve when death asserts his temporary dominion. Grieve as Christ did when he saw the suffering of others. Grieve as if we were a people of love, with all of its attendant joy and sorrow.

Grieve, or be silent.”

UPDATE
In the fine tradition of never admitting error, it seems Ingrid has instead chosen to simply remove the article from her main site. Well, in the interest of full disclosure, I’m reprinting it here, in it’s entirety.

David Cloud of the Fundamental Baptist News Service reports this on the electrocution of emergent pastor and author Kyle Lake while conducting a baptism. He left a wife and small children. David Cloud writes:

Pastor Kyle Lake was electrocuted on Sunday, October 30, minutes after the congregation had prayed, “Surprise me, God.” The pastor of the liberal University Baptist Church in Waco, Texas, had preached a strange New Agey-like sermon about living life to the
fullest, in which he said: “Live. And Live Well. BREATHE. Breathe in and Breathe deeply. Be PRESENT. Do not be past. Do not be future. Be
now. … Get knee-deep in a novel and LOSE track of time. If you bike, pedal HARD and if you crash then crash well. … If you’ve recently experienced loss, then GRIEVE. And Grieve well. At the table with friends and family, LAUGH. If you’re eating and laughing at the same time, then you might as well laugh until you puke.”

This Baptist church gets its name from nearby Baylor University, which is a liberal institution supported by the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship. Professor Roger Olson of Baylor’s Truett Seminary
has espoused the heresy of Open Theism, which claims that God does not perfectly know the future and makes mistakes. In March 2004 Baylor’s school paper came out in support of homosexual
marriage and said it is wrong to “discriminate”.
against someone because of “sexual orientation.”

49 thoughts on “Kyle Lake, and the Shame of Fundamentalism

  1. Chad

    I’d just like to add that you can email Ingrid to express your feelings at jesujuva@gmail.com. This is her public email address that she gives on the blog, I am not invading her privacy.
    .
    She’s such a turd. I am really glad Mike beat me to posting about this, because I would have used naughty words.

  2. Stick

    I can barely believe I’m reading this.
    .
    I just watched “Kingdom of Heaven”… this line of thinking sure smacks of the craziness of the Crusades and the Church at the time.

  3. Morphea

    What a THING to write about someone who died a sudden, freakish and horrible, horrible death. I hope his family and congregation never see it. I personally got all happy and inspired reading what SHE quoted him to have preached right before his death – there’s some irony for your Friday.
    .
    I was going to say something funny about what I’d like to say to her and putting all the naughty words in brackets, but this just makes me too sad and freaked out to do it.

  4. WideBody

    Just when I think I’ve got it all figured out … along comes an Ingrid to set me straight. I left comments on her blog thanking her for helping me to see what this heretic was really up to! As I told her, I am glad that God’s ways are not higher than my ways and His thoughts not higher than my thoughts, or I could be next. Who knows, if I weren’t so in tune with God’s plan and will I might do something someday that would be heresy. And then he would have to strike me down wouldn’t he? WOW! And these people think emergents are into mysticism. Go figure.

  5. jason

    I’ve had sporadic success posting on Slice. My comments this time were: “oh you have got to be kidding me. are you suggesting, subtly, that God killed that man because he preached a sermon you never heard? because someone at Baylor University embraces Open Theism?

    I want to hear you say it directly. Not beat around the bush. Be honest with your readers. Say it.”

    we’ll see what happens. A couple of weeks ago, she dedicated a whole post to me, in the “Outrageous” section. It’s called, “For Jason” and it’s stunning.

  6. michael lee Post author

    Sweet!
    .
    Chad and I are jockeying to see which one of us can be the first to be publicly anathematized by Ingrid and her ilk. Looks like you’re already won.
    .
    You can spot a good man by his enemies as well as by his friends.

  7. Morphea

    Jason, I went and read her entry about you and I must say that you have achieved a great honor in your lifetime. You have officially troubled The Ingrid. [You're Catholic?? How cool is that?]
    .
    Cerise

  8. Morphea

    Out of sheer perversity I went to EmergentNo to find our their take on Rev. Lake’s death and their response was one of sorrow and promises to pray. Huh.
    .
    I’d like to say publically that I’m no longer visiting the Slicers for a laugh. I get pretty freaked out and touchy about things after and start accosting innocent newcomers on THIS blog…

  9. grace

    My brief comment from this morning which wasn’t posted:

    “The tone of this article is extremely offensive in light of this tragedy.”

  10. Morphea

    Congrats, Grace. Under Ingrid’s standards for that which she will not post, you’re either offensive, doctrinally unsound (heretical, I think she says), or just clearly an unbeliever. I personally your statement puts what I’m thinking the most succinctly.
    .
    Cerise

  11. corey

    yeah, talk about a bottle neck. She wouldn’t publish my comment either…

    “dear ingrid,
    you’re an ass.
    In Christ,
    -corey”

    what gives?

  12. robbymac

    I think Ingrid banned me some time ago. I noticed that whenever I used Scripture to back up my points, or question hers, I didn’t get posted — ever.

    I was even more appalled to read the comments by her supporters, who went even further and outright stated that it was God’s judgment on heresy. I think she deleted the post because emerging bloggers were calling her on it by pointing out the exteme callousness — and conveniently neglected to mention the appallingly hate-filled comments of her regular yay-sayers.

    Ingrid may not “swear” on her blog, but the words she uses (and that Pastor Sliver or whatever) are violently profane, IMO.

    My shut up now. This whole thing gets me a tad worked up.

  13. Jim

    You’re all so Christ-like. Can I join this group? I’m so tired of being a misunderstood gay fundy. I really want to be like you guys. Can I please?

  14. Chad

    Wait, you’re a gay fundie? I am not sure we can really tolerate a gay fundie. I mean, someone that confused is really a liability. Have you tried http://www.gayfundies.org? Give that a shot.
    .
    Ezekiel 4:15. Sola Scriptura.
    .
    God Bless.

  15. Chad

    As Chief Petty Officer of the Addison Road Janitorial Staff, I feel qualified to to add this: If you wish to, as Jim did, make sarcastic comments, you can expect responses in kind, except they will be funnier and have better grammar. Remember fundies-of-the-world, you are poor satirists. It’s like German stand-up comedy, or movies about The Apocalypse. it just doesn’t work.
    .
    If, on the other hand, there are those of you who don’t like this site, or you find the content offensive or unbiblical, and wish to say so, you will be engaged warmly and respectfully in dialog. I give you my personal guarantee. I also guarantee that addisonrd.com will have the cleanest restrooms on the internet.

  16. Morphea

    I have so much trouble spotting irony. First, I felt good that Jim wanted to be like us. Then, I wondered how one can ideologically BE a gay fundie, though I know they must exist. There are gay conservative Republicans…After that, I wondered if making fun of someone we disagree with really IS Christ-like (still not understanding at this point that he’s using sarcasm to make us feel ashamed of ourselves). Finally, I decided that when someone we disagree with is so egregiously cruel in the face of a tragedy that happens to someone THEY disagree with that Jesus exhorts us to make fun of them with every resource at hand.
    .
    Then, with Chad’s help, I figured out that Jim was indeed using irony to make us feel ashamed of ourselves (a tiring habit of fundies, I find) and I felt very indignant and slightly ashamed of myself. Such are the minute workings of my mind. I conclude with the belief that I have NO sense of humor.
    .
    Cerise

  17. corey

    Can someone help me out and give me the def. of a “fundy”? I would click the url, but since I don’t know what it is, I’d rather not run the risk of going to some site that I can’t explain to my wife.

  18. Chad

    Corey, it’s our little pet name for fundamentalists. And feel free to click away, I promise explanations to Beth will not be necessary. I actually checked to make sure there was no actual link to that site… Although I think perhaps there should be.

  19. jason

    you can get back in her good graces by agreeing every once in a while. it’s tough, but I’ve been alternating between banishment and “Embrace the catholic because maybe I’ll get saved. Again.” I’ve got a post pending that challenges their determination that C.S. Lewis is now in hell with his pipe and liquor. We’ll see.

  20. Chad

    They’re back at it. //link// I strongly urge you to assume a sitting position before reading this, and take deep, long, emergent breaths to keep your pulse from getting dangerously high.

  21. scott ayres

    wow…I stumbled across this blog tonight while trying to find the press release about the police findings on Kyle’s death. Ingrid and proctor’s webpages are disturbing. They didn’t know Kyle, but judge his motives so quickly. Kyle didn’t even preach that last sermon, he died before he could. Typical fundies jumping to conclusions and just copying and pasting what someone else says. I sent them both this email “You’re a very bitter, uninformed man. Kyle was my pastor and friend for many years. I moved away years ago to pursue youth ministry and now sports ministry. Had you done your research you would have found out that Kyle never delivered that sermon.. He died before that. You are quick to judge the closing of his sermon and not take it in it’s entirety. Which is pretty typical of closed minded fundamentalists. Kyle was very traditional in his beliefs and values. In conversations with him he would consider himself fundamentalist in his beliefs, but was attempting to deliver his message to an audience that will only take it in a non-traditional way. You shouldn’t judge a man unless you know him. I believe Paul spoke of that quite a bit. Every example you gave on your website about Paul calling people out as they died, were people Paul new closely. He knew their thoughts, and motives. You sir don’t know Kyle Lake.. You are attempting to remove a possible speck in someone’s eye while you have a huge plank sticking out of yours. I’m sad for judgmental people like yourself. I believe the bible speaks about your kind. I hope you enjoy the heat…. On a side note, Kyle would get such a kick out of all this talk. You guys are continuing to make an ass out of yourselves.. Way to go!!!”

    I doubt anyone will see it besides here. Sad to see people who claim to be Christian tearing down a strong Christian leader. Safe to say who will end up in Glory and who won’t…

    Grace and peace,
    Scott Ayres

  22. scott ayres

    I also wanted to post this message below. You can also find it and other dialogue about Kyle at :
    .
    //link//
    .
    This event has been hard, real hard for me. On one hand I understand where he’s gone and I know he has received he gift that we all long for. But, on the other hand I’m overwhelmed at time with grief and anger. I either want to laugh about the jokes and stories Kyle used to tell over a burger and shuffleboard at Crickets, or cry, no sob, over the loss of perhaps one of the most influential people in my past, or I get so pissed off I cuss at God and want to give up this whole damn thing we call religion. Why would our God allow something like this to happen to a man of God who is doing His work?? Just makes no sense to me…
    .
    I think what pains me most is that I never took the opportunity to tell Kyle how much he meant to me and how much he influenced me. It’s funny how we don’t realize those things until something tragic happens.. We get so wrapped up and caught up in ourselves, and our own pursuits that we forget to pause and thank the ones that got us here. So, I want to take a moment and publicly thank Kyle for what he was and is to me.
    .
    Thanks for being a free spirit.
    Thanks for making me laugh and laugh alot.
    Thanks for being the one back when we started the 2nd or 3rd married couples group at UBC to break the awkward silence when topics got tough (and by breaking the silence I mean breaking wind at times!)
    Thanks for being there for Lisa and I after our first miscarriage, with a smile on your face and a casserole dish in hand!
    Thanks for letting me yell at you and your God.
    Thanks for letting me get angry and not telling me I was going to hell for telling God to fuck off.
    Thanks for healing me and showing me how to trust in God again.
    Thanks for being at the hospital at our 2nd miscarriage and making fun of Lisa’s socks as she went under anesthesia.
    Thanks for your prayers.
    Thanks for the lunches at Cricket’s and for letting me whip you at pool a few times, although I think you always won at shuffleboard, too much of a girlie sport like soccer for me!!
    Thanks for letting me cry on your shoulder, snot and all.
    Thanks for buying me breakfast at Barry’s Bagels one morning so we could discuss me getting into youth ministry.
    Thanks for telling me it was ok to mess up and just be me, the kids will appreciate honesty instead of political correctness.
    Thanks for being my reference as I applied at churches and putting your reputation on the line for me (although at the time your reputation wasn’t that good! It was 1999 afterall!).
    Thanks for crying with us as we left UBC, our home, to pursue what God had in store for us.
    Thanks for wearing those goofy zip up padded vests. I thought only my trucker dad wore those, somehow you made them look cool.
    Thanks for being just a phone call or email away when I wanted to catch up every couple of months.
    Thanks for preaching from your heart.
    Thanks for not taking yourself seriously at all.
    Thanks for showing all of us that pastors aren’t hypocrits.
    Thanks for being honest.
    Thanks for being an author.
    Thanks for being a movie watcher.
    Thanks for wiping a booger on me once during a prayer!
    Thanks for being a husband and for showing young college students how to love your wife.
    Thanks for being a dad, I wish I could have seen you with your kids, I know you were great…
    Thanks for being my pastor.
    Thanks for being my friend.
    Thanks for being you…..
    .
    I’ll miss ya man, enjoy Heaven, and save a place for me at the pool table.. I get winner…
    .
    Grace and Peace,
    .
    Scott Ayres
    Minister through Sports and Recreation
    The PARC @ SLFUMC
    http://www.theparc.org
    .
    [ Lisa and I started going to UBC, less than a year after it started, in early '96. The church grew so fast in that first year, that during the Baylor school year it had to meet at the Hippodrome (an old civic theatre seating close to 1000). Now when Baylor was out, we went back to reality and met at this tiny, old church house with maybe 25-40 of us there. Kyle came on staff shortly after this (maybe a year or so) and fit right in with us. It was an exciting time when we bought the building on Dutton and started renovating it and making it our own. Lisa and I went to church there for 4-5 years and left the church maybe 6 months after Kyle took over for Chris (Chris moved back to Houston to start Ecclesia). It was hard for us all, but Kyle filled his shoes well and didn't miss a beat in pastoring the community there. Lisa and I had a hard time leaving in late '99 as God called us into youth ministry at this small country church out in the sticks, but it was what God wanted for us. And I remember Kyle being so supportive of it and helping me through it. We got to know Kyle and Jenn well the previous year or so in our married bible study group. Kyle and Jenn were a part of our 3rd year of meeting and were freshly newlyweds, man they would make me sick!!! I can't think of any other couple besides Lisa and myself that were more in love..]

  23. Chad

    Hey Scott… welcome to Addison Road. It’s really great to hear a first person account of what Kyle was like… makes me feel better about the amount frustration I have had with these people. It seems like Kyle was worth it.
    .
    Grace and peace of Jesus to you and yours, brother.

  24. scott ayres

    It’s well worth it. And it would be worth it for anyone who is a believer in Christ. Not a believer in fundamentalism… Kyle was a great guy. Deeply missed. Check out this article:
    //link//
    It addresses the churches beliefs a bit. Proctor and Ingrid are so lost… no wonder guys our age hate church!!! (and I work at one!!)

    scott

  25. merton

    Kyle was an amazing man. I miss Kyle Lake, who was my pastor for a bit.
    May God keep all the souls who are angerd by this Ingrid person be angered
    at the false statements targeted at Kyle. This Ingrid woman, and the Slice site (which I visited before coming here) is in error. That is all that can be said about that. I would simply request of thos of us who knew Kyle, and the man he was, that we would respond in the same manner to this that he would. May we pray for Ingird and here ilk. May the grace and light of the overarching Lord of the universe shine on her and lead her to the fullness of His love. May Jesus Christ be formed in us as we would have him formed in others.

    (Question). Who at Baylor is an open theist? By name if possible. I do not ask to throw stones, at all, I have a supecion of whom they may be speaking. But what some way is rarely true.

    Grace and peach to all.

    Merton

  26. merton

    Also, I would advice the rejction of divisive terminology. Fundamentalism does not mean what its original meaning meant, so is no loger a useful label for the vaguly named group that that terminology now is applied. In a similar fashion modern liberalism, those follwing the theological tradition of F. Schleiermacher, are rarely those whom the term is applied to. The fundamentalists were people who believed they were stemming the tide of theology that began with F.S. which had its starting point in the human individual. It occurs to me that most people labeled either have no idea what the words they are using mean, and only serve to divide the body. But I am just rambling. Sorry.

    Grace and peace to Jesus’ people in all their forms,
    Merton

  27. Chad

    Merton, ramble away. I think you’re right in that the label Fundamentalist doesn’t really apply here. I think we’re going to go with “wingnuts” from now on.

  28. merton

    Random thought # 3
    The commonly misquoted and misunderstood blasphemy of the Spirit line, if read in context speaks of attributing the things of God to Satan or the things of Satan to God. Let us all be humble in our view of providence.

    P.S. Any clue as to who this group is labeling as an open theist at Baylor?

  29. Chad

    I know, but when I don’t know the answer to something, I get smarmy. It’s my Pomo Defense System kicking in.

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  31. Can't resist - Roger

    Can’t beleive you haven’t done your homework on what a Fundamentalist truly is historically and trash the name so quickly, even if she isn’t one. How about proper church discipline if you have an issue with her comments (the goal is restoration of the believer if I remember my scripture correctly!). Some of you should be ashamed of yourselves. Take a read on Merton above and then get out your Fundamentals for the Twenty-First Century edited by Mal Couch (it’s an up date the original multi-volume set.
    Roger

  32. Paul

    I believe you’ll find the best work on Fundamentalism is George Dollar’s “History of Fundamentalism in America” published about 1972. Too bad some of the modern liberal thinkers had not yet been uncovered. He ranks Fundamentalists into three groups – Militant – Moderate – and Modified. All who claim the name of Fundamentalist fall into one of those camps — still holds true today — always will.

  33. What???

    Baylor University– liberal??? Come on! This lady needs to do some research! And to insinuate that Baylor supports homosexuality is crazy! The school paper may support it, but aren’t journalists usually the liberal ones. Go to the Baylor newspaper archives and do a search on “homosexuality”. I think you’ll read just a few articles and realize that the school and the majority of students do not support homosexuality.

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