This is a very, very interesting list. I dig this idea a lot. One question I had: Which of these four would take the role of pastor? I’m not trying to be cute - I mean, who would be the caregiver, the chaplain, the counsellor; the lady or fella who goes to hospitals or visits the elderly or homebound, the one who counsels members of the group with spiritual crises? Maybe I’m displaying my vast ignorance of all things emergent (I still haven’t read any of McLaren’s stuff - forgive me, Aly) and emergent communities take care of these aspects of ministry within the community - meaning, they don’t pay someone to do this full time. Can you take pity on my ignorance and explain, Michael? Cerise

Can we have A Dancer? Somebody who dances. A lot.

I like where you’re going, Mike. I think you’re right that there will - and should - be crossover with these roles. To some extent, each one is a Facilitator, in that they should enable the community to tell the story, participate in creation, experience connection, etc., rather than do the telling, creating, connecting while everyone else looks on. This will be most difficult for the Narrator and the Curator. (Can we change Host to “Hostinator”? I also think we should call the collective staff “The Enablers”.)

Sorry, I don’t know any millionaires. But I’ll say a prayer over my lotto ticket. Are you just in the dreaming/praying/imagining stages, or do you have a timeline?

Dunno if we’re dreaming or planning. The Colorado trip that’s coming up will probably have a lot to do with how serious we really are about this. If we go mega-church, it would be someplace like the community in Colorado; everything we’ve seen and heard so far from that church makes us very hopeful that our values line up with theirs, both in the arts and in missional and transformational life. If we head out there, and things don’t click, then I think the mega-church thing is not for us, and we’ll need to start looking at what else might be possible
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Cerise, I think the sort of “pastoral care” functions of a church community are essential, but I really dislike the idea of staffing that responsibility. Once you staff something you sort of kill off the sense of community responsibility to take care of it. Once there’s somebody who’s job is to visit people, the rest of the community gives up on their obligation to share burdens with one another. Not only is it a bad use of staff resources to pay somebody to do that, it’s a crippling of the spiritual maturity of the body when they surrender the obligation to mutual burden.
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When somebody ends up in the hospital, I think it’s an unhealthy response for people in the community to think, “They’re in a pretty bad place right now. I sure hope our Care Pastor heads over to the hospital to spend some time with them.” It seems like a much better response for people to say to each other, “They’re in a pretty bad place right now. I’ve time on Tuesday night to drive their daughter to her soccer game, we’ve got some extra money that we were going to put toward a new TV that we can kick in toward medical expenses, and then let’s head over to the hospital to see them and maybe encourage them a bit.”
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This may be a bit of hopeful thinking on my part, but I think one of the banners under which this type of thing might grow is, “Communal responses are preferred to institutional responses.” If there is a choice between responding to something with a communal initiative (each person assuming part of the burden), rising out of the natural values of the community, and responding to something with an institutional initiative (staffing a position to assume the burdens), the communal response is usually a healthier one.
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I know this sort of contradicts the whole premise of the original post, but “I contradict myself; I am vast. I contain multitudes.”

Thanks, Walt. Hey, are you serious about the mega-church thing? I have to be honest, I have a hard time imagining that working. No offense. Can you tell why that’s the preferred option?

Yes, I think you’re right about letting the community shoulder those sorts of responsibilities. In my church the head deacon heads up the visiting of the sick, doing charitable works, etc., though her job is more to mobilize the congregation to sign up for that sort of thing than to actually do it all herself. You’re right, though, that it’s most likely something the community could see to with some organzing, though I have to wonder how much would get done for charities and the homebound and the like without some clipboard-pounding from SOMEONE.
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I still stand by my opinion, though, that I’d prefer to have a chaplainy-type-person of some kind on staff whose job it is to be there for the individuals in the community in a counseling/comforting/advisory capacity. I really have trouble seeing a community trying to do without this person - it’s a big deal in most of the churches I’ve attended, whether it’s the vicar doing the counseling or they have an actual counselor on staff - and I still fail to see why they should have to. Cerise

I’m gonna take a stab at answering Aly’s question, although it may vary from Mike’s.

Why a megachurch? 1 possible answer, and I am sure there are more…

Because he can make sure Sophia has formula and diapers and college. I don’t know how to explain without being a pedantic prick how your foundational values shift when a child is born. I actually view my life as ministry first for my wife and 1.5 kids. As much as I would love to see a next generation community church come into my life and I into it, I have to sustain my first ministry and leadership priority or all other ministry will be out of balance.

I know you know all this… but it’s just that the burden of nesting and safety is so… ugh… hate this word… REAL for new dads. I comment not on the reality for new moms, simply because I’ve never been one.

I understand now why Paul talks about exalting the singles for their ability to stay mobile and flexible. I can only speculate here, but I think it’s more about kids then marriage in that passage. In that culture, I am sure that marriage and children were inextricably bound together, but I think it’s more about the kdis then the marriage.

Again… just one of many, I am sure.

I REALLY was not trying to be an ass. Sorry!

New blog policy - everybody assume that everybody else is being genuine and compassionate, not cynical and uppity.
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Aly, lemme park for a minute and then post later on the idea of why a mega-church. It’s a different answer than Chad’s; he’s not wrong, he’s just hitting on what I think is a more minor reason than the main ones for Gretchen and I. I’ll get to it in a bit.

I have to say that all of this talk about the emerging church has got me interested. Reading about it has caused me to pause and think about why we go to our church and what they are doing in the community. Our church is definitetly a mega church (or heading that way) and has some emergent qualities but it is Southern Baptist….

Our “head paster” does do a lot of work and we have the major issue that 20% of the people do 80% of the work but people care about each other in their smaller groups. Our Connect Group (Sunday School class) does work in the community, takes meals to those in need, visit in the hospital, and all feel the need to support one another in our walk amd growth in our spitiual lives. Other connect groups do the same thing.

I agree that peoples roles should cross over and help one another but if there is not a “leader” of sorts will their be much direction?

Huh. I dunno - I do feel like a council or board of some kind is theoretically better than one leader, myself. I’m not into one leader of anything [insert complaints about current US politics here]. But then anything that doesn’t mirror traditional churches gets my vote, I have to say. Thus I nullify my earlier argument that emergent church plants should have on their paid staff a counselor of some kind because “all my other churches did it that way.” [sigh] Cerise

Aly… please please assume that I hate you and think the least of you.

Oh wait… no… actually assume that I am using a one dimentional medium to attempt to communicate a 3D idea. I think I could elaborate on Mike’s thoughts, but I’ll leave that to him. I guess I was more responding as Mike if it were me making the decision. In a way it is, although my church is decidedly un-mega. But… everytime I think seriously about leaving it, I hear that little voice ringing in my head…

My risks have to be more calculated, but that doesn’t make them not risks… :) I guess that’s what I was trying to say.

Chad

I hear you, Chad. Every (infrequent) time the subject of kids comes up at our house, this line of thought is heavy on our minds. It’s weird enough owning a house and feeling tied down a bit by that responsibility…having children would exponentially multiply that responsibility. Mainly because you can’t sell children. At least not legally.
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I think you are navigating the balance between caution and risk very, very well. And that’s my incredibly valuable and non-transferrable two cents.

Well I hate you.

If only I knew someone who cares about community and who has a natural proclivity for care of the marginilized and hurting…

Aly, for the record, I’m with Chad. I hate you too. This is awkward.

Mike, I like where you’re going with the sense of communal responsibility. Oh that a sense of personal responsibility could be re-birthed in faith communities!

Cerise,

I think most people in “Emerging Churches” are somewhat attuned to the needs of their fellow Christ-followers as a result of natural relationship. I suspect most people know of needs before it gets to the “legislative level”. Having said that, I whole heartedly agree with the idea of a “Clip-board Pounder”. A little organization goes a long way. I’m guessing some one would “emerge” as a leader in the burgeoning faith-community.

Yada, yada, I digress…

Karen,

How in the world are you and Bobby doing? I think of y’all often and would love to from you. Drop me a line @ http://www.bonowannabe.blogspot.com. Also, make Bobby write too : )

Wow, that is awkward. Anyone know a good marriage therapist?

If you and your husband would just make an effort to make Christ the center of your marriage, you would find yourselves drawing closer to each other. Also, remember that he is the spiritual head of the household. Submit to him and he’ll begin to love you again. And it goes without saying that you’ll love the one you’re learning to obey infinitely more.
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Ash, that’ll be $50, please.
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Cerise

Seriously, folks. To beat my own dead horsie. Can someone tell me what their vision is, in the emergent movement, for what’s to be done within the community when a need for counseling of any kind (pre-marital, crisis, grief, whatever) arises? I hate to think that someone in that community would have no recourse but to hire their own private therapist or something. I have the feeling that they just wouldn’t GET counseling if they couldn’t go to a leader (or whatever) that they trust within their own spiritual community. Maybe I’m overestimating the need. Perhaps, as Michael and Ash pointed out as pertaining to charitable and crisis assistance - hospital visits, providing food/help/comfort - the community would mobilize somehow and meet the need from among their memebers. Anyone have any idea how this might work? Thanks for letting me keep on with this. Cerise

Cerise, I think that’s an important question, and one that deserves more than a cursory answer. These are my initial thoughts; there are two sorts of things we’re talking about here. One one hand, the “charitable and crisis assistance” sort of burdens are well met by the community sharing burdens. On the other hand, there are relationships and circumstances that require sustained attention, and attention from a person with a particular sort of training. I know in our church, and I think in many churches, people are realizing that this is a particular sort of training that often falls outside of the scope of pastoral training; it is better served by somebody with specific ability and training as either a marriage and family counsellor, or training in psychiatric medicine. Some churches staff that position, but most smaller communities don’t have a large enough congregation to justify that kind of staff investment. Instead, they may partner with a non-profit organization that staffs christian counsellors, and serves that need for several smaller congregations. The costs associated with this type of counselling are significantly less than typical counselling sessions.
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I know this is a partial answer at best, and the idea of out-sourcing seems somehow like a cop-out. How would we go about meeting both sides of this problem, the need for trained assistance, but the desire for shared community burdens?
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On a somewhat related note, I think that of the above four people, the narrator would function most like a lead pastor. Some of those things that operate better under pastor leadership would likely be assumed by that person.