You shall know them by their fruit.
I’ve been musing today about the orthodoxy (right belief) vs. orthopraxy (right practice) dilemma. (I would argue that it should not be a dilemma, but it seems to keep cropping up in arguments between traditional evanglicals and emerging church-types. Instead of arguing the futility of bifurcating these two fundamentals of Christianity, I’m just going with the flow. The argument against the argument will have to save itself for a future post.)
Here’s the thing: I don’t think anyone would want to argue that right belief shouldn’t lead to right practice, that good theology shouldn’t lead to good Jesus-following. I think the problem comes when we can’t agree on what “right practice” looks like…what fruit should be borne of right belief. [Generalization alert.] The ultra-con evangelicals I know look for and celebrate the fruits of goodness, faithfulness and self-control. The ec-ers I know look for and celebrate the fruits of love, joy and peace. (Neither are especially hot on patience.) This results, inevitably, in a ridiculous circular process of finger-pointing and accusation, leaving everyone utterly convinced of their own righteousness and their adversary’s heresy.
The last thing I want to do is trivialize the myriad and important distinctives that are the basis of the traditional-versus-emerging church problem. It increasingly seems to me, however, that a values barrier exists that is about as surmountable as Pike’s Peak in January. (Not impossible, but highly inadvisable.) How does meaningful comparison take place when the units of measure are incompatible?
michael lee 11:17 am on 27 June 2005 Permalink
whew. I’m glad you warned us about the generalization ahead of time.
I do think that there is a gap between which fruits are given higher value, and there’s maybe a second aspect to that. EC folk seem to place a high value on spiritual fruit in systemic manifestation (i.e. living at peace with other nations), while EV folk seem to place a high value on spiritual fruit in personal manifestation (i.e. living at peace with one’s wife). Again, broad, broad, broad generalization.
Here’s what I think – let’s take this out of the context of accusation, and put it in the context of “amen”. The EV church says we should exhibit self-control? Amen. A better grasp of scripture, and a well-developed interpretation? Amen. EC folk say we should work toward more just systems and institutions? Amen. A deeper ecclesiology and stronger community? Amen.
I guess my question would be, how can any of these things be bad? And maybe a further question, one that might make some people upset, is it OK to acknowledge that most church communities won’t be succesful at all of these, and that we need wide nets, varied communities to fully manifest the Kingdom?
aly hawkins 12:07 pm on 27 June 2005 Permalink
[I originally had written "many" before each church-type, but it just got to be too many qualifiers. I thought the generalization alert would give the heada-up that I definitely don't mean "all". Next time I'll stick with over-qualifying.]
My point was not to place a value-judgment on the different sets of values; rather to point out that these different sets of values often lead to mutual loathing and judgment. I’m all for affirming and celebrating – saying “Amen” to – different manifestations of the Spirit. I’m not sure I resonate with the idea that different church communities should just do what they do best and call it a day. Paul seems to be saying to the Galatians that everyone who is “in step with the Spirit” will exhibit ALL of the fruit of the Spirit. Is it really OK to elevate one or four of them and write off the others as someone else’s territory? “Well, we here at the Peace-Loving Chapel of Gentleness don’t really do Self-Control. You’ll find that down the road at Faithful Gospel Tabernacle of Temperance.”
I understand there is a pragmatism to all of this, and perhaps I am too much of an idealist to embrace it. Sigh.
Morphea 12:25 pm on 27 June 2005 Permalink
You know, I still know very little about the thought behind EC (I know, I know, McLaren’s the NEXT one on my reading list. After the new Harry Potter) and so didn’t really have an opinion about Aly’s words, but I got curious about the whole fruits thing and had to go and google the fruits of the Spirit. Yes, I’m that rusty in my scripture-memory. But then I read all of Galatians 5 (I’m assuming that the list of fruits we’re talking about is the one listed in Gal. 5:22-23) and got really excited that that this whole passage seems relevant to the EC/EV conflict. I won’t sport with your intelligence by trying to pick and choose what I think the passage is saying that I think is so relevant, but there’s a lot of stuff in there about judgement and clinging to the law and conflict and I just got really worked up about how perfect this one chapter is in illustrating the ideal I strive for. That I ask god for help in implementing. I’m not sure what my point is except that I read Aly’s thing and read some scripture and got kind of excited finding that wonderful chapter and had some thoughts about how it might all relate to the current scene. Cerise
Jeremy 3:22 pm on 27 June 2005 Permalink
Nice conversation starter :) Being a post-EVer and emerging ECer, for me this whole idea of observable fruit is very stark and distinct. I think there is one word that defines the difference: community.
For EVers, the emphasis on produced fruit is in the context of non-community, or the self. Examples of non-community fruit: do not lust or look at porn; do not lie; do not drink alcohol; do not get pregnant; do not talk dirty; do not miss QT or prayer time; do not vote for democrats… (just kidding!) Like everyone else these are gross generalizations, and the list is not exhaustive by any means, but the fruit that people see are all about fruit that is self-oriented.
ECers, on the other hand, value more community-centric fruit: give a portion of your money to an unwed mother; help clean up God’s creation, like a local river; advocate for the dying Sudanese; buy a meal for a homeless man; buy haircuts for little homeless kids.
Does the distinction make sense? It seems the EC emphasis on observable fruit is a little less about what I as an individual do not do with self, and more about what I as an individual do for others in community…My experience with FunGicalism (fundamental evangelicalism) was all about what I as an individual do not do with myself. There was little if no emphasis on fruit I do for and in community…Of course that was one experience, but it seems to be the experience of most EVers that I minister to on the Hill, too…
be His,
-jeremy
PS-I blogged about another topic along a similar line of thinking a few days ago. It was about murdering, hating preachers who die and stand in judgement, and wondering what God will say to them…they may have prayed the prayer but their fruit was something entirely different. I wrote it in thinking about fruit and people who say they are Christians but do not “produce” as Jesus would have them. Interestingly, the two pastors I highlight are from non-denom, EV, bible churches…You can read the post here: http://novuslumen.blogspot.com/2005/06/what-will-happen-to-murdering-hating.html
Swoosh 6:14 pm on 3 July 2005 Permalink
I am not sure one will ever align with the other.
Were it to do so, would it not then be the point that we ceased standing by grace, and if we ceased standing by grace then we would undermine our own faith and thereby lead us back to the disconnect, except, maybe is a less visual manner.
I certainly know I fall short of my own convictions, but I also know I serve a God who knows this, and has kind of told me to come to Him anyways.